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Blood Delay

Hit Detection creating blood on LTK, yet not killing the person, as if it "really" didn't hit them

Howabout, no blood at all in GE:S?

"No Blood" option in the client side

[Aura89]

Just brought up a thing in the 4.0 suggestion thread and want to see what people would like more with a poll

Basically, everyone complains about the hit detection, how in LTK, you shoot someone, you see blood come out of the person, but they keep walking, and i've had it many times go up to 3 times, 3 different blood splatters, yet the guy does not die, it's frustating

So i came up with a possible idea of: Make it so no blood comes out of the guy being shot UNLESS he either dies, or takes damage, this way, if he does not take damage we should no longer be seeing blood splattered across the wall on LTK yet the guy is still walking

the Dev said that would cause a blood lag due to ping and possibly lerp, but my thinking is, i much rather have blood lag then horrible hit detection always ruining the game by seeing the blood yet not killing him

I also added a 3rd option, completely take out blood, personally, i wouldn't have a problem with this myself, i don't see the need of blood terribly in GE:S

Also, this has to also take into consideration the bullet wounds on players aswell, those could not show up unless damage was taken aswell

[VC]

The problem is that the player behavior doesn't change.

With false blood you keep shooting the guy until you see him actually drop.
With lagged dcals, you keep shooting the guy until you see him actually drop.
With no blood decals, you keep shooting the guy until you see him actually drop.

The only true fix, if one exists, requires a non-trivial overhaul of how Valve calculates hits.  Which is beyond our depth.

I wouldn't mind a ge_blooddecals 0 server option, but that is as far as I would take it.  When you see blood, you at least know that the trace from your client position along the bullet's path hit the position on the screen where your computer calculated the other guy's drawn model would be.  Note that I mentioned nothing about hitboxes.

[Aura89]

The problem is that the player behavior doesn't change.

With false blood you keep shooting the guy until you see him actually drop.
With lagged dcals, you keep shooting the guy until you see him actually drop.
With no blood decals, you keep shooting the guy until you see him actually drop.

The only true fix, if one exists, requires a non-trivial overhaul of how Valve calculates hits.  Which is beyond our depth.

I wouldn't mind a ge_blooddecals 0 server option, but that is as far as I would take it.  When you see blood, you at least know that the trace from your client position along the bullet's path hit the position on the screen where your computer calculated the other guy's drawn model would be.  Note that I mentioned nothing about hitboxes.

I know the player behaviors will not change but people will not be getting frustrated from "WTH I JUST SHOT THAT GUY AND THERE WAS BLOOD!", for instance if i keep shooting at a guy and the bullets for some reason "don't get detected", i won't get mad, or even notice it, due to there not being any blood....

Personally, i'd go ahead and just plainly like an option that, client side, can turn off blood, sort of like how UT3 has a "gore" option, that way people can choose, client side, if they want to see the blood, or, benefit from not getting irritated by the hit detection + blood

Like i said, and i think most people would agree, i don't mind the hit detection, as long as i don't notice it happening, and the way the blood is going on currently, is forcing me to notice "wtf man i just shot that guy the blood is right there i thought this was LTK he should be dead GRRR!"

One last thing though also, if the blood didn't occur untill some actually got hurt, there would be a blood delay, but i would assume, that delay would also happen the same time that guy gets hurt/dies, so in reality, right now, isn't the blood happening "before" the person gets hurt? and wouldn't the "blood delay" actually be happening "at the same time" as the guy getting hurt, making the blood in reality more accurate?

[ZeroThreat]

blood delay for reals man

[Aura89]

i created one more option for the client-side blood option, i really hope people look at this poll, as it would be very nice to see what the devs and fans would think would be best, and if it actually really matters to you guys (the devs) it'd be really nice to have it as a sticky for a least a little while

[Aura89]

4 votes and no explanation of 4th vote?! lol

[killermonkey]

Client side blood is already turned off it the player doesn't take damage (ala invuln period hits).... HOWEVER.... it is IMPOSSIBLE to prevent this without turning off blood entirely. Making blood server side is such a waste of network traffic its not even funny, so that's not an option. The problem lies in the fact that prediction tells the client that there was a >50% chance that the player was hit by your shot so it goes ahead and shows blood.

The best you can do is:

a) GET OVER IT
b) Play with: violence_hblood 0

[Aura89]

Client side blood is already turned off it the player doesn't take damage (ala invuln period hits).... HOWEVER.... it is IMPOSSIBLE to prevent this without turning off blood entirely. Making blood server side is such a waste of network traffic its not even funny, so that's not an option. The problem lies in the fact that prediction tells the client that there was a >50% chance that the player was hit by your shot so it goes ahead and shows blood.

The best you can do is:

a) GET OVER IT
b) Play with: violence_hblood 0

I like option a, it just proves to me again that whenever this topic is brought up that some of the devs just say "don't care we're done with it get over it" even though this is like the only thing that so many people have a problem with, but hey it's not like you're trying to get people to play your game...

I mean cmon guy i'm here trying to give out ideas and be pro-active about this problem, that most definitely is a problem, and you just tell me to get over it? what's with that?

as to option b, is there a possibility you could add that as an option in something like...the multiplayer advance options?

[coolDisguise]

Well, as KM says traffic is important (since it influences your ping) and I'd suggest to leave it "as is". It doesn't happen that often to me that a player wouldn't die when he's bleeding, and even when it happens I just don't care. I mean why disable blood in the end? Even GE64 had blood (and yes, due to GE 64 being a local game it never occured when a player was actually missed, I know).
You might put a clientside no blood option in for those being frustrated, though.
As VC said it wouldn't change the players' behaviour after all, no matter what they would do and that's right.

[Aura89]

Well, as KM says traffic is important (since it influences your ping) and I'd suggest to leave it "as is". It doesn't happen that often to me that a player wouldn't die when he's bleeding, and even when it happens I just don't care. I mean why disable blood in the end? Even GE64 had blood (and yes, due to GE 64 being a local game it never occured when a player was actually missed, I know).
You might put a clientside no blood option in for those being frustrated, though.
As VC said it wouldn't change the players' behaviour after all, no matter what they would do and that's right.

Agreed i do think that a clientside no blood (meaning no blood at all in the game) would be the best and easiest thing for the dev to do, for us people who are getting irritated, it would make it so we can play the game and not get irritated, sure our behavior will be the same but we won't be irritated

I have many friends i want to play this game with but they won't touch it because of this simple reason, they are a bit hard headed, but what can you say

[Wake[of]theBunT]

I like option a, it just proves to me again that whenever this topic is brought up that some of the Dev's just say "don't care we're done with it get over it" even though this is like the only thing that so many people have a problem with, but hey it's not like you're trying to get people to play your game...

I mean cm on guy I'm here trying to give out ideas and be proactive about this problem, that most definitely is a problem, and you just tell me to get over it? what's with that?

Aura, I am going to state this to you only once, and if you persist to neglect reading our posts properly, you will then need to be warned if you keep at it.

There will be no chance for us to do what you really want where it is reasonable for our mod. We did not create this situation, is the first thing I want to make clear to people reading this "debate". Valve code base only allows us so much leeway to change the game. Source is source, and this is a mod, get that through your head. Might lead you to making better decisions than trying to insult people who give up spare time for you, over an issue we have zero control over.

What we are saying is in fact, get over this idea your solutions are possible. They aren't. You are not the first person to suggest blood is a problem nor the first to suggest we have many options to fix it. KM gave you the option for yourself to play how you want. I hope you use it and quit complaining.

About the command itself, I might write it in the FAQ when that's done, since another advanced option for GE:S is just over the top. Approve this one and by the end I think the trend would put us at about 35 advanced option boxes.

In all honesty, just play the game and learn to live with what cant be changed. We are aware of most issues long before we ever release a build, and if there were ever a fix for it we would of course look into it before releasing a build. But some things are beyond our control.