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Author Topic: Official Nintendo Wii Discussions  (Read 79088 times)

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mbsurfer

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Re: Official Nintendo Wii Discussions
« Reply #45 on: December 18, 2006, 02:10:41 am »

Don't get too drunk, so you forget to open the box  ::)
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.sh4k3n

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Re: Official Nintendo Wii Discussions
« Reply #46 on: December 18, 2006, 06:08:09 am »

I think the real issue would not be opening the box, but either damaging the contents by my methods of extraction, or throwing a Wiimote at someone during a drunken rampage on Wii Sports Tennis.
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Vin007

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Re: Official Nintendo Wii Discussions
« Reply #47 on: December 23, 2006, 12:02:19 am »

Quote
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I can't seem to find this information anywhere, cite please.
You're talking to Vin, he doesn't get sources for his information just spews whatever comes to his head first.

The problem is that my sources are mostly in Dutch. Given the fact that nobody here speaks it I have to look up English articles wich may not fully (if at all) represent the Dutch article.

What is DRM?
DRM, so called Digital Rights Management for propaganda's sake, is a umbrella term for encrypted data. In order to compute encrypted data it must be decrypted with the encryption key. The problem is "who owns the key?" If it's you than you are in charge, if someone else owns it than they are in charge of that data.

Software company's can use encryption for games, music and other stuff. Like Valve does with Steam this technique can be used for copyprotection. Nothing wrong with that... or is it?

Apple has DRM built into iTunes. Copyprotecting you say? Well what if your iPod is broken, say you accidently dropped it, and you want to buy a better, cheaper Samsung music player? Forget it. You have to buy a new iPod that can store the decryption keys to play all the music you bought through iTunes.

Lock in product

In Windows Vista everything is encrypted. What if you want to switch from MS Office to another office suit, like StarOffice? All the so called 'protected' word documents can not be read.

Protected from what?

Protected from ownership. Everyting DRM you buy is owned by the company, used whenever the company likes it, blocked from you whenever a company thinks they don't want to hand you over the key.

"Good for the industry"

Only good for the large company's. Smaller companys will get crushed. No competition and no future for small record labels.

"Ah whatever! I'll be using Microsoft products for ever and as long as it works I don't see the problem"

Does this ends with Word documents and music? What if everything on the internet will be getting encrypted and the United States government will own all the keys to internet data they ship around? The ultimate propaganda machine! Iraq you say? Nah it's peacefull there. Area51? Nah that doesn't exist.


Digital Restriction Management restricts the end user from his own system. You pay for things that you can't own. Large company's are in charge of your pc. Windows Vista: you harddisk in encrypted... Not you but Microsoft is in control of your pc!
« Last Edit: December 23, 2006, 12:14:17 am by Vin007 »
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Polizei

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Re: Official Nintendo Wii Discussions
« Reply #48 on: December 23, 2006, 05:58:38 am »

Quote
Quote
I can't seem to find this information anywhere, cite please.
You're talking to Vin, he doesn't get sources for his information just spews whatever comes to his head first.

The problem is that my sources are mostly in Dutch. Given the fact that nobody here speaks it I have to look up English articles wich may not fully (if at all) represent the Dutch article.


I'm going to go ahead and guess the article doesn't exist or was mistranslated from x language to dutch to begin with, since there still is no source for me to check, sorry! D:
What is DRM?
DRM, so called Digital Rights Management for propaganda's sake, is a umbrella term for encrypted data. In order to compute encrypted data it must be decrypted with the encryption key. The problem is "who owns the key?" If it's you than you are in charge, if someone else owns it than they are in charge of that data.

Software company's can use encryption for games, music and other stuff. Like Valve does with Steam this technique can be used for copyprotection. Nothing wrong with that... or is it?


Like I said, it's a tradeoff. You are trading ownership for wider access.

Apple has DRM built into iTunes. Copyprotecting you say? Well what if your iPod is broken, say you accidently dropped it, and you want to buy a better, cheaper Samsung music player? Forget it. You have to buy a new iPod that can store the decryption keys to play all the music you bought through iTunes.


There are perfectly legal ways to get around that.
Lock in product

In Windows Vista everything is encrypted. What if you want to switch from MS Office to another office suit, like StarOffice? All the so called 'protected' word documents can not be read.

A valid and plausible argument. I don't have a copy of vista, so I don't know. However, even my MSword has the option to save as .rtf or .txt to maximize compatability.
Protected from what?

Protected from ownership. Everyting DRM you buy is owned by the company, used whenever the company likes it, blocked from you whenever a company thinks they don't want to hand you over the key.

Protected from bankruptcy. Remember, it's a tradeoff, one that greatly benefits you and I: More music, faster, CD quality, low price. And it's legal.
"Good for the industry"

Only good for the large company's. Smaller companys will get crushed. No competition and no future for small record labels.

Smaller labels don't suffer from as much piracy as larger labels do. Small labels will continue to exist and pick up new artists. Why? Because major labels don't go to local shows or meet with small potato bands. They just wait and prey on successful bands when their contract expires for their small label. Anyone else is just a fake groomed to be a star by the mainstream media.
"Ah whatever! I'll be using Microsoft products for ever and as long as it works I don't see the problem"

Does this ends with Word documents and music? What if everything on the internet will be getting encrypted and the United States government will own all the keys to internet data they ship around? The ultimate propaganda machine! Iraq you say? Nah it's peacefull there. Area51? Nah that doesn't exist.

Microsoft is the great satan! You're not going to kill free speech simply by making people go through an extra step to get their music. As Adolph said, the people are more prone to believe a big lie than a small one... I can't see a smaller lie than what the R stands for in DRM. :)

Digital Restriction Management restricts the end user from his own system. You pay for things that you can't own. Large company's are in charge of your pc. Windows Vista: you harddisk in encrypted... Not you but Microsoft is in control of your pc!

No, it doesn't restrict you from your own system. You still have access to all of your stuff. You pay for a license to the music. THIS IS A FUNDAMENTAL CONCEPT OF DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION. Unless you go to a store and buy a physical box labeled as the product you want, there is no possible way the company can make it economically feasible to distribute online.

Think of it this way, when they sell you unprotected digital music, they are essentially selling you a mold. You could make as many copies as you want with that mold, but you have to go through a little bit of work. Why on earth would a product maker sell the molds to their products? Wouldn't they rather sell just the finished product so that their design is protected and they get more sales?

In a digital world, the only way to sell just the product is to switch to DRM and sell licenses.

Remember, your experiences aren't defined by what you can take with you to the grave, but by what you did in life.
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Vin007

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Re: Official Nintendo Wii Discussions
« Reply #49 on: December 23, 2006, 08:16:55 am »

I'm going to go ahead and guess the article doesn't exist or was mistranslated from x language to dutch to begin with, since there still is no source for me to check, sorry! D:
http://tweakers.net/nieuws
http://babelfish.altavista.com/

Quote
A valid and plausible argument. I don't have a copy of vista, so I don't know. However, even my MSword has the option to save as .rtf or .txt to maximize compatability.
Wich will also be encrypted. Not a problem in Windows then, but what if I run Linux?

Quote
Protected from bankruptcy. Remember, it's a tradeoff, one that greatly benefits you and I: More music, faster, CD quality, low price. And it's legal.
In propretary formats that, because of encryption, cannot be reverse engeneerd so that I can't play this on other devices. In the USA you are not allowed to reverse-engeneer but in Europe this is legal to create competition and freedom. You can't, ofcourse, share these files with others.

Quote
Smaller labels don't suffer from as much piracy as larger labels do. Small labels will continue to exist and pick up new artists. Why? Because major labels don't go to local shows or meet with small potato bands. They just wait and prey on successful bands when their contract expires for their small label. Anyone else is just a fake groomed to be a star by the mainstream media.
Their DRM files won't be playable on a iPod, so they have to ship it without DRM, wich is unfair; they can't have copyprotection while Apple can. Another way to circumvent this is to pay a license from Apple so their music will get more expensive or less profitable than iTunes.

Quote
Microsoft is the great satan!
It is a large anti-trust company. DRM is another move from Microsoft to prevent files to run on Linux. If Linux implents DRM than Microsoft is in charge of Linux: they hold the keys. When they don't want to they just don't hand it over because "your OS doesn't pass our legitimate check"

Quote
In a digital world, the only way to sell just the product is to switch to DRM and sell licenses.
So if I use MS Office Word I have to buy a license for Word documents that I created myself?
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olileauk

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Re: Official Nintendo Wii Discussions
« Reply #50 on: December 23, 2006, 11:34:48 am »

Lock in product

In Windows Vista everything is encrypted. What if you want to switch from MS Office to another office suit, like StarOffice? All the so called 'protected' word documents can not be read.


WOW, that's bullshit. I have Windows Vista, that doesn't happen.
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InvertedShadow

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Re: Official Nintendo Wii Discussions
« Reply #51 on: December 23, 2006, 07:04:36 pm »

Lock in product

In Windows Vista everything is encrypted. What if you want to switch from MS Office to another office suit, like StarOffice? All the so called 'protected' word documents can not be read.
:O??
If so then I'm not taking my free upgrade to vista.
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Polizei

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Re: Official Nintendo Wii Discussions
« Reply #52 on: December 23, 2006, 07:13:25 pm »

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Quote
A valid and plausible argument. I don't have a copy of vista, so I don't know. However, even my MSword has the option to save as .rtf or .txt to maximize compatability.
Wich will also be encrypted. Not a problem in Windows then, but what if I run Linux?
But .rtf and .txt can't be encrypted. Ever wonder why the major DRM formats are .wma and .aiff? It's because these formats allow for the protection. MP3s can't have DRM because they don't store any information except for the music and the id3 tags. In the same way, .txt and .rtf are designed for maximum compatability because they don't save any other information but the text.
These formats are both very useful when using third party programs. There will always be basic formats like these to maximize compatabilty or, as you see it, protect personal IP.
Quote
Quote
Protected from bankruptcy. Remember, it's a tradeoff, one that greatly benefits you and I: More music, faster, CD quality, low price. And it's legal.
In propretary formats that, because of encryption, cannot be reverse engeneerd so that I can't play this on other devices. In the USA you are not allowed to reverse-engeneer but in Europe this is legal to create competition and freedom. You can't, ofcourse, share these files with others.
Like I said, there are perfectly legal ways to get around this.
Quote
Quote
Smaller labels don't suffer from as much piracy as larger labels do. Small labels will continue to exist and pick up new artists. Why? Because major labels don't go to local shows or meet with small potato bands. They just wait and prey on successful bands when their contract expires for their small label. Anyone else is just a fake groomed to be a star by the mainstream media.
Their DRM files won't be playable on a iPod, so they have to ship it without DRM, wich is unfair; they can't have copyprotection while Apple can. Another way to circumvent this is to pay a license from Apple so their music will get more expensive or less profitable than iTunes.
But this is a difference between large labels and small labels. Small labels can still make money through CD sales because their CDs are already being discriminated against -- they aren't sold at Best Buy or FYE. DRM is only needed to protect larger labels. Smaller ones still function in their crippled state like they have for the last few (many) years. If you're looking out for small labels here, DRM is the least of your worries.
Quote
Quote
Microsoft is the great satan!
It is a large anti-trust company. DRM is another move from Microsoft to prevent files to run on Linux. If Linux implents DRM than Microsoft is in charge of Linux: they hold the keys. When they don't want to they just don't hand it over because "your OS doesn't pass our legitimate check"
URGE will only work on legitimate copies of windows with WMP11 to begin with, it's a service designed for their customers. Does it exclude Linux? Yes. Is there anything wrong with a first party program being used as an incentive to buy and use your product? No, it's good business.
Quote
Quote
In a digital world, the only way to sell just the product is to switch to DRM and sell licenses.
So if I use MS Office Word I have to buy a license for Word documents that I created myself?

No, because you don't buy a license for things you generate. DRM is apart of digital distribution only. Anyways, in the United States, everything is copyright to the creator the second it is created. It's yours and you can print it out, publish it or save it as a .txt or .rtf
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Vin007

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Re: Official Nintendo Wii Discussions
« Reply #53 on: December 23, 2006, 11:45:16 pm »

@Polizei:

I agree with everything you said so far, but what if I use Linux, and a friend/teacher sends me a DRM Word document? I can read DRM-less Word document with OpenOffice.org.
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X23

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Re: Official Nintendo Wii Discussions
« Reply #54 on: December 24, 2006, 12:39:12 am »

Zelda kicks ass. I'm halfway throught it (First 3 dungeons) And currently doing sidequests. The world is pretty big, theres alot to do, great story, great graphics, combats fun, dungeons and bosses are fun, musics good etc.

I reccommend everyone get it. If you can't get a wii anytime soon and have a Gamecube get it for that.
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olileauk

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Re: Official Nintendo Wii Discussions
« Reply #55 on: December 24, 2006, 12:52:53 am »

@Polizei:

I agree with everything you said so far, but what if I use Linux, and a friend/teacher sends me a DRM Word document? I can read DRM-less Word document with OpenOffice.org.

Hello? did you read my post? No, i thought not.

STUFF IN VISTA IS NOT ENCRYPTED!
For the love of god, man. Vista has BitLocker Drive encryption, which encrypts your hard drive's data, yes. BUT IT IS NOT ON BY DEFAULT, and I don't even know how to turn it on.

How do you think i transfer files between my home computer and school, when school runs a different version of office and a different version of Windows?
« Last Edit: December 24, 2006, 12:58:00 am by olileauk »
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Polizei

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Re: Official Nintendo Wii Discussions
« Reply #56 on: December 24, 2006, 03:03:08 am »

@Polizei:

I agree with everything you said so far, but what if I use Linux, and a friend/teacher sends me a DRM Word document? I can read DRM-less Word document with OpenOffice.org.

As a general rule of thumb, anyone who plans to send a file from one computer to another should save that file in a format which allows for maximum compatibility. I've learned that the hard way (on more than one occassion). Even when saving files for use in the same program, different versions aren't always compatible. (Flash MX Pro to Flash MX, for example, does not work unless you save in a compatible format) And if your friend/teacher knows you, they should know you wouldn't touch Vista with a 12 foot pole, and should save their documents accordingly.
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Vin007

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Re: Official Nintendo Wii Discussions
« Reply #57 on: December 24, 2006, 09:04:20 am »

How do you think i transfer files between my home computer and school, when school runs a different version of office and a different version of Windows?
1) DRM is baked into Office 2007 for the first time
2) DRM is supported in Windows XP SP2
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olileauk

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Re: Official Nintendo Wii Discussions
« Reply #58 on: December 24, 2006, 11:46:48 am »

what makes you think my school have office '07, or XP sp2?

most, if not all of our school computers, run XP, with no service packs. our school ran Office 2000 until april this year when they finally got 2003.

YOUR ARGUMENT FAILS AGAIN, LOLZ
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Patch

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Re: Official Nintendo Wii Discussions
« Reply #59 on: August 04, 2007, 04:50:32 pm »

The Wii is a fun console to play with i got on and its alot of fun and i would recommend it to people cause its alot of fun and you just dont sit there getting fat.
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