GoldenEye: Source Forums
Debriefing => Impressions & Feedback => Topic started by: markpeterjameslegg on August 04, 2012, 02:00:01 am
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Just wanted to say how impressed I am with bots, they're so human-like sometimes you forget they're bots, for example, in Archives I was upstairs near the steps that lead down to the large open area and the bot was hovering around the bottom of the stairs, but it was the way he was moving in and out of view, forward, backward left & right trying to get a hit whilst avoiding being hit. They have an unpredictability about them that's quite human-like sometimes, they even wait round corners rather than dash straight back out, they wait for you to make a move instead, amazing work KM. :)
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Thanks a lot man!
And there is more to come, even! I left a little hanging present in the bot code which I will be working on for a future patch that will let me code in advanced schedule interrupts (which are impossible with Valve's stock AI Code).
An example of this is if a bot is going to an enemy and he passes by armor. Right now the bot has to drop the enemy schedule then add an armor schedule. Then, if lucky, regain the enemy schedule.
Advanced interrupts would let me store away the current enemy schedule and do an interim armor run if I am nearby, then restore the enemy schedule.
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thats amazing KM
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The bots are already better than those found in most commercial games, there was no doubt in my mind that you would at some point be improving them.
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Ok, well everyone seems to love the bots, but some how I think I am having a different experience. I haven't really played with the bot difficulty yet but the base difficulty is a bit erratic. I've been playing with an average of around 11 bots and with those bots some will just stand there, literally. Others will do nothing except slap other bots / me. Some then will engage others and I with some kind of weapon. Unless this is some kind of bug on my end the bots on their base difficulty seem a bit easy to tackle.
My biggest issue with the bots (if it is an issue and not some bug on my end) is like I said they'll just stand there so I can get stuck playing YOLT on the Facility map (classic or the new one) because a bot will start out in the vents above the bathroom and with no jumping turned on I have no way of getting to this bot to kill it, so then I basically have to just sit/stand there until the round is over.
Can somebody tell me if this is normal behavior or do I need to change the difficulty to get human-like bots that everyone else is harping on about?
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Ok, well everyone seems to love the bots, but some how I think I am having a different experience. I haven't really played with the bot difficulty yet but the base difficulty is a bit erratic. I've been playing with an average of around 11 bots and with those bots some will just stand there, literally. Others will do nothing except slap other bots / me. Some then will engage others and I with some kind of weapon. Unless this is some kind of bug on my end the bots on their base difficulty seem a bit easy to tackle.
My biggest issue with the bots (if it is an issue and not some bug on my end) is like I said they'll just stand there so I can get stuck playing YOLT on the Facility map (classic or the new one) because a bot will start out in the vents above the bathroom and with no jumping turned on I have no way of getting to this bot to kill it, so then I basically have to just sit/stand there until the round is over.
Can somebody tell me if this is normal behavior or do I need to change the difficulty to get human-like bots that everyone else is harping on about?
They're bots, not real human players. Obviously they will contain flaws that you've stated. If you're playing with bots, try doing it with every feature (e.g jumping on, etc.) The difficulty does not change how they interact with their surroundings, just their reaction times. Everything is normal.
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Bots don't jump and don't crouch.
Don't play with them on YOLT or facility classic that vent should have been marked as a no bot spawn.
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Also try different maps.
Bots efficiency also depends on how good the nodegraphs are on the map.
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Gotta expect some issues, Bots are new to Goldeneye Source and for a first Bot release they're very good. Improvements will be made as time goes on but for now we'll all just have to enjoy it with it's flaws. ;)
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@DaFees
I think the bots are just awesome. you have to consider that killermonkey created them on his own - that means one guy fighting against a thousend problems. learning by doing. frustrating nights and technical setbacks. now as they were released they work fine in the majority of cases. and that's just impressive.
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@DaFees
I think the bots are just awesome. you have to consider that killermonkey created them on his own - that means one guy fighting against a thousend problems. learning by doing. frustrating nights and technical setbacks. now as they were released they work fine in the majority of cases. and that's just impressive.
Exactly. In a commercial title you'd probably have a group of people working on AI and as we know most commercial games can take a minimum of 2-3 years to be released, what Killermonkey has achieved in just 1 year on his own is remarkable.
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@markpeterjameslegg and @The Cy: Don't get me wrong I understand the bots are very impressive, yes they are, but in the first post by markpeterjameslegg he said "they're so human-like sometimes you forget they're bots." With such high praise like this combined with the experiences I was having my point was that I just thought I was missing out on something. However since the behaviors I've noted are being considered the norm then that's fine. I understand that creating bots can be a very difficult task especially if only one person is creating them.
I appreciate everything that has been done so far, I look forward to the future, and I apologize if my previous post seemed so negative.
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This is great feedback. The hardest part about coding ai is that most of the behaviors don't appear with a short testing session and common problems may be missed or overlooked as sporadic.
I am taking all these reports seriously and am working on the issues. I have a real passion for lifelike ai, I have big plans for what I have created for future projects, so perfecting the basic issues now will go far for the future.
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In console, type in ge_bots_difficulty 9
This will put them into 007 mode and will be a bigger chalenge
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@markpeterjameslegg and @The Cy: Don't get me wrong I understand the bots are very impressive, yes they are, but in the first post by markpeterjameslegg he said "they're so human-like sometimes you forget they're bots." With such high praise like this combined with the experiences I was having my point was that I just thought I was missing out on something. However since the behaviors I've noted are being considered the norm then that's fine. I understand that creating bots can be a very difficult task especially if only one person is creating them.
I appreciate everything that has been done so far, I look forward to the future, and I apologize if my previous post seemed so negative.
Obviously I meant, they're great and human-like when they are functioning as normal, not when they're stuck on steps or doorways or just standing there like statues, I am just accepting the negatives as the positives far outweigh them.
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This is great feedback. The hardest part about coding ai is that most of the behaviors don't appear with a short testing session and common problems may be missed or overlooked as sporadic.
I am taking all these reports seriously and am working on the issues. I have a real passion for lifelike ai, I have big plans for what I have created for future projects, so perfecting the basic issues now will go far for the future.
Yea, also I cant wait for the heat map major suggested in another thread. With that implemented, oh man we can make them even more human-like!
Kudos to KM and Troy (since you guys are only main coders?)
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Yea, also I cant wait for the heat map major suggested in another thread. With that implemented, oh man we can make them even more human-like!
Kudos to KM and Troy (since you guys are only main coders?)
KM is the main coder for GE:S, Troy only makes third-party gamemodes, etc.
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There's also the man on the orange if I'm not mistaken, But I think he's not around anymore.
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^lol. Classic line hahaha
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There's also the man on the orange if I'm not mistaken, But I think he's not around anymore.
Well there is the lol for the day :p