GoldenEye: Source Forums
Debriefing => Impressions & Feedback => Topic started by: OoSuper MarioO on December 24, 2010, 10:19:03 pm
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Hello, Team GoldenEye: Source. I'm going to get straight to the points with feedback based from your GoldenEye: Source users(myself included).
-Damage System: There needs to be more feedback when players are damage. In the original GE n64, when you damage a player a sound would feedback from the damage hit.
The second problem, is it takes too long to kill someone(Head shots excluded); it creates scenarios that looks awkward.
-Spawn System: Spawning in front of bad guys or spawning and immediately dieing is just a recipe for frustration. This really needs to be fix.
-Radar: I made a thread before about this, but please allow us to customize the color fonts. Having a green color symbolize an enemy just feels...wrong and unnecessary confusion.
- I notice on the casino map that if I enable the flashlight I will crash to the desktop. I'm going to look into this to see if it's my hardware or maybe tweaks.
Nevertheless, great work on the mod! Solve these problems and your mod will be excellent, lol...
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-Damage System: There needs to be more feedback when players are damage. In the original GE n64, when you damage a player a sound would feedback from the damage hit.
There's a giant orange/blue circle combined with a white flash to indicate your own damage. Otherwise it's a giant blood spill on someone's character.
The second problem, is it takes too long to kill someone(Head shots excluded); it creates scenarios that looks awkward.
Playing chess takes long and looks ackward too.
-Spawn System: Spawning in front of bad guys or spawning and immediately dieing is just a recipe for frustration. This really needs to be fix.
You get 3 sec god mode untill you fire your gun.
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There's a giant orange/blue circle combined with a white flash to indicate your own damage. Otherwise it's a giant blood spill on someone's character.
Now what about the audio feedback? Specifically dependent on a visual feedback is not satisfying at all, especially in comparison with the original game.
You get 3 sec god mode untill you fire your gun.
It doesn't solve the spawn problem. :-\
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The spawn system we implemented doesn't help when you play on a level like complex with more than 16 players. It is programed to find a spawn where there is not another player in near proximity to it...
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A gasp is heard when you're hit. If you really want, open the sound in Audacity or something and up the volume.
Other than that I really don't see a problem.
*flash-gasp-recoil-healthmeter*
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It's creepy if you think that the noise is basstronix... so every little damage it sounds like bass having sex... I laugh a little every time I hear the sound.
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We are looking into reports that spawn protection isn't working 100%. But I can assure you through months of testing there was never a spawning issue with 5-10 players.
This game isn't designed for 16+ player FFA Deathmatch (on at least 50% of maps) without teamplay enabled after 14-16 limit.
This is more a serverhost issue than our implementation. But of course, we will work at creating even more hardened fail safes and advancements to the already solid and intuitive systems killermonkey has put in.
Ask any beta 1 player whether v4.1 is "problematic" with spawns and hit notification :P You are new, and as such we cannot jump to the same conclusion that there are "problems" in the mod stopping it from being excellent. It is excellent. Outlets such as PCgamer believe there are no issues with these kind of things stopping it from being a great GoldenEye recreation.
Bit of self education by the servers couldn't help imo. We must have written it like 12 dozen times the game should never be 16+ without teamplay on unless "rediculous fun" is your only motive to host a GE:S server. Even some long time community servers still violate our own recommendations :P
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In all honesty, join an 8 man server and wait for it to fill up. And enjoy zero issues with spawning. That's my honest advice until servers learn what they've got at their disposal allows them to avoid all these issues.
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It is programed to find a spawn where there is not another player in near proximity to it...
Are you kidding me? I can force players and items to spawn where I want literaly by means of walking certain directions. The radar is a dead giveaway. Maybe it's just my insane pattern finding skills but I know so well how this system works that I can manipulate it to my advantage. There's even a spot where I can let players spawn over and over and over again, turn around, shoot them in the head, get some armour and the other player is done for because I can regrab the armour every time.
But then I stopped doing that; it's completely taking the fun out of the game...
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It's programmed to supposedly find a clear spawn.
Long story short, KM didn't feel like it actually needs to analyze the player distribution, so instead it picks something like four potential spawns and then tries a best-fit.
But, I have an idea.
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Is it possible to put up a message warning of a high player count every time you enter one of those servers? TF2 has this.
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I think all source games' server lists show the number of players.
We added a system to convert scenarioes to Teamplay whenever applicable, but if server hosts don't use it there's not much we can do.
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If the game sint designed for more than 16 palyers then dont allow more than that many by default and if server admins want more then let them fiddle about until they can manage it.
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Yeah of course you can see the player count, but a lot of people don't realize that any more than 16 players is unbalanced, which is what the message would warn of. TF2 warns you of unbalanced gameplay when you enter a server with more than 24 players.
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It's programmed to supposedly find a clear spawn.
Long story short, KM didn't feel like it actually needs to analyze the player distribution, so instead it picks something like four potential spawns and then tries a best-fit.
But, I have an idea.
The way that it would defeat me would be like this:
1. Don't make items spawn closer to me than a newly spawned player if I have already picked it up there; let me walk to the other armour spot instead and than turn the mechanic around;
2. In case of all spawn points camped; never let a player spawn closer to me than someones else more than once/time and at the same splace more than once/time. In case of total dissaster; random.
That way I cannot take advantage of the system.
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As my idea (which I've PM'd to KM; IDK when he'll RTFM, but W/E) addresses, "nearness" is not the issue. You can get ganked easily across the big room of Stacks but be four feet away from someone on the other side of a Complex wall and be safe.
We really wouldn't want the item spawning system to try to analyze what everyone's current inventory is, especially to alieviate a problem that only exists because people let themselves get hit and dead in the first place. :)
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Yeah of course you can see the player count, but a lot of people don't realize that any more than 16 players is unbalanced, which is what the message would warn of. TF2 warns you of unbalanced gameplay when you enter a server with more than 24 players.
Thats a REALLY solid idea ill have to bug monkey about adding that in.
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OK so it's down to skill, but my current average kpd is 1.3 (not alltime as I am improving) and by using my tactics it spikes to 5 (15-3). I find that wierd, but if you think that it's good to not nerve this advantage then I'll be happy to artificialy boost my pwning in 40% of all my matches :p
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TF2 warns you of unbalanced gameplay when you enter a server with more than 24 players.
God, do they help you aim your peter when re-filling your jarate jars?
Shit kids, whatever happened to not joining a server that has more people in it than you feel creates an amusing experience? If I'm in the mood for constant chaos, I don't want Mommy Vidya to nag me about the obvious.
And do we really need more popups? We already have an interactive post-it gallery to explain the scenarios...
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And do we really need more popups? We already have an interactive post-it gallery to explain the scenarios...
True, True
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And even then, unfortunately, people aren't reading them.
The amount of times I have had to explain Live and Let Die is crazy.
I agree with the radar comment. I always think green is "good" and red is "bad". Even though I have been playing the mod for a long time, I still get confused.
I also think this colour scheme could also be reflected onto Capture the Key. I personally find it a bit confusing and I see this with the new players as well. They often have been playing a few games of deathmatch and then they aren't sure where they are supposed to be going. If the colours from a teamed deathmatch are white for your team mates and green for the enemies, then the item you are supposed to be capturing and your base would be green. You can tell things apart by the symbols.
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The amount of times I have had to explain Live and Let Die is crazy.
FFFUUUUU-
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I always think green is "good"
Amen to that sister.
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Potheads. Potheads everywhere.
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I find people not understanding capture the key hilarious. All I need is a klobb and armour and I keep the clueless busy while the key carrier makes sure that my team wins :)
I openly laugh at them and call them noobs and then they are willing to learn. After 2 rounds 8 people learned2play and things get interesting.
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@Emilia: you've obviously never used a real radar before. Everything is green, even the birds (no joke) and clouds. The point of the radar is for quick information, if you rely on it then you are probably staring at it and not the enemy killing you. What is so confusing about team colors for team objectives???? Honestly.
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I actually prefer to play with no radar. I'm just saying their could be a colour consistency throughout, regardless of the gamemode.
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You can change the RADAR background colour easily its just a vtf texture I did it a while ago on 3.x becaus the green back ground annoyed me.
http://forums.goldeneyesource.net/index.php/topic,4777.msg52148.html#msg52148
Just ahd a look and it doesnt look like its possible to change blip colours by swapping texture files is it in the res files or hard corded?
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-Damage System: There needs to be more feedback when players are damage. In the original GE n64, when you damage a player a sound would feedback from the damage hit.
I agree.
The second problem, is it takes too long to kill someone(Head shots excluded); it creates scenarios that looks awkward.
It's been mentioned before, but Lead Devs like to argue that its bs and everyone wants the game to be like CSS.
-Spawn System: Spawning in front of bad guys or spawning and immediately dieing is just a recipe for frustration. This really needs to be fix.
Completely agree. On a smaller map with a full server, you can spawn 3-4 times and die right as you spawn.
-Radar: I made a thread before about this, but please allow us to customize the color fonts. Having a green color symbolize an enemy just feels...wrong and unnecessary confusion.
It'd be a nice feature, I'd personally make friendlies greens and enemies red.
- I notice on the casino map that if I enable the flashlight I will crash to the desktop. I'm going to look into this to see if it's my hardware or maybe tweaks.
Haven't noticed this or had it happen. could be a hardware issue.
You get 3 sec god mode untill you fire your gun.
Everyone keeps saying this, but I have YET to experience it.
The spawn system we implemented doesn't help when you play on a level like complex with more than 16 players. It is programed to find a spawn where there is not another player in near proximity to it...
I've spawned several times to a bad guy coming at me, or right behind him.
@Emilia: you've obviously never used a real radar before. Everything is green, even the birds (no joke) and clouds. The point of the radar is for quick information, if you rely on it then you are probably staring at it and not the enemy killing you. What is so confusing about team colors for team objectives???? Honestly.
I think the problem is you argue too much instead of acting like your listening. I've noticed this since I've joined, and being a new player, it's a little awkward when a Lead Developer argues with players instead of trying to act like you'll look into something, or noting it. I never noticed the "Lead Developer" title, but when the first time I came to the forum, I thought you were a jack ass by the way you spoke to people.
It's awesome you know how a REAL radar works, but this game isn't real life.
There's no point in having a "Impressions & Feedback" session if the Lead Developer is going to argue with everyones impressions or input.
Not trying to be a dick, or jackass, but I'm pointing out the obvious.
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The green radar dot simply suits the color scheme of the entire hud. making it customizable would lead to issues with the special color coded icons that signify objects of interest in the various game modes. If you made your radar icons blue and red, for instance, you would have difficulty discerning the key from an enemy player in CTK.
When a lead developer tells you something won't work or is a trivial pursuit, listen to them. There are of course times when the dev team is wrong, but more often than not they know what they're talking about. This is a well established project several years in the making, we've tried a lot of different things that never saw the light of day. That isn't to say don't make suggestions, we always love to hear them, but at least trust us when we tell you something is a bad idea. KM isn't going to act like something that's been suggested several times and tested with ill results is a great implementation, he'll simply tell you it doesn't work. If you decide to make that into an argument, it's your choice.
A note on the spawning system; if a map is full of enemies with no spawn more than 6 feet from an armor camper, where should the next player spawn? Every game with a respawning system has spawn killing to some degree, and there is little that can be done about it other than the aforementioned invulnerability time and good map design.
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We love people giving their feedback and suggestions, as it's a sign you care enough to do so. That doesn't mean we will act on everything as that is unrealistic. Suggestions also aren't a place you get to "bitch" about what you've hated with no accountability.
Some of the suggestions do go grossly against what Goldeneye is about. It's core mechanics and such. It's never personal if we make an argument against something a user says and like E-S stated, it's not like you shouldn't listen to what we say about our own game in defense. You might learn that what we say is indeed the wisest direction to take.
And that whole "oh a developer elitist" stigma is really lame and please don't apply it to us. We work for free on a fan-based recreation, and love goldeneye as much or more than anyone in the world. Just saying.
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I think the problem is you argue too much instead of acting like your listening. I've noticed this since I've joined, and being a new player, it's a little awkward when a Lead Developer argues with players instead of trying to act like you'll look into something, or noting it. I never noticed the "Lead Developer" title, but when the first time I came to the forum, I thought you were a jack ass by the way you spoke to people.
It's awesome you know how a REAL radar works, but this game isn't real life.
There's no point in having a "Impressions & Feedback" session if the Lead Developer is going to argue with everyones impressions or input.
Not trying to be a dick, or jackass, but I'm pointing out the obvious.
Valid point, although I like to keep myself that way. I've been programming this mod for 2.5 years and have explored a lot of suggestions that have been made for better or worse. It is impossible for me to follow up every one of my responses with the rationale behind them, I try to give a quick example, but to explain it fully would be impossible (I also answer a lot of posts via my Droid X and cant divulge into lengthy discussion).
There is this thread (http://forums.goldeneyesource.net/index.php/topic,5310.0.html) describing my attitude / inability to reason with people. I am not presenting a persona on the internet, this is how I REALLY am. I tell the truth, am blunt to the point, and don't BS you and get shit done when its needed to be done. My apologies if I offend you, I actually write down every suggestion that is made and I think about the following before I shoot it down or accept it:
1. Implementation cost (how much time it would take to get it done)
2. Cost vs Benefit (will this be game changing or barely noticed)
3. True to the mission (are we straying too far from GE64?)
4. Already Tested (have we tried this before, if so it failed since its not in the game)
For an example, Capture the Key has gone through literally 10 rewrites of Python in order to get the gameplay just right. The testers came up with ideas, I implemented them, and we tested them. Ideas that worked stayed, those that didn't were removed. The same goes for almost every feature we have in the game.
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KM may come across as a hardass, but he is a fuzzy bear at heart. <3 Believe me, I used to think the same thing about him, but then realized that their really has to be someone on the team who wears the "black hat" and seems like a hard ass. (VC doesn't count for many reasons) Due to KM's history with the mod, it only makes sense that most of the "suggestions" would be declined since he has tried MANY avenues and he KNOWS the limitations of the source engine. Just my two cents. <3 you KM :P
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Valid point, although I like to keep myself that way. I've been programming this mod for 2.5 years and have explored a lot of suggestions that have been made for better or worse. It is impossible for me to follow up every one of my responses with the rationale behind them, I try to give a quick example, but to explain it fully would be impossible (I also answer a lot of posts via my Droid X and cant divulge into lengthy discussion).
There is this thread (http://forums.goldeneyesource.net/index.php/topic,5310.0.html) describing my attitude / inability to reason with people. I am not presenting a persona on the internet, this is how I REALLY am. I tell the truth, am blunt to the point, and don't BS you and get shit done when its needed to be done. My apologies if I offend you, I actually write down every suggestion that is made and I think about the following before I shoot it down or accept it:
1. Implementation cost (how much time it would take to get it done)
2. Cost vs Benefit (will this be game changing or barely noticed)
3. True to the mission (are we straying too far from GE64?)
4. Already Tested (have we tried this before, if so it failed since its not in the game)
For an example, Capture the Key has gone through literally 10 rewrites of Python in order to get the gameplay just right. The testers came up with ideas, I implemented them, and we tested them. Ideas that worked stayed, those that didn't were removed. The same goes for almost every feature we have in the game.
Please do not take what I said as hateful. Do I hate you? No. I have no reason to hate you, you've done nothing to warrant hate. Dislike at times? Sure. I can appreciate the fact that you did A LOT for this mod, I really can because it's a great mod, if it wasn't, I wouldn't of stayed around.
All I'm suggesting, is maybe act a little more "welcoming" to suggestions, especially for new members, it can put a sour taste in some peoples mouths and possibly give a bad impression, you never know who that member could be, or what kind of influence they hold in the real world.
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The team is very welcoming suggestions, KM especially. The thing is most suggestions are quite bluntly crap, and so the critical and blunt reception is really what helps to filter through the suggestions.
It's like when after 2 years of a perfectly working damage system, a new player comes along and says headshots need to be nerfed. It's not the fact that they're new that invalidates their suggestion, it's the fact that the suggestion is just a naive or perhaps entirely ignorant one.
KM may seem blunt but he's patient enough to deal with my persistant bothering about [insert feature here].
And it's not like there aren't many suggestions, the team gets loads of suggestions, not only on the forums but in game, through email, through Steam, through moddb etc.. Though the forum is the most valid place for them.
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- I notice on the casino map that if I enable the flashlight I will crash to the desktop. I'm going to look into this to see if it's my hardware or maybe tweaks.
Just wanted to reply that I have discover the problem. If Mat_queue_mode 2 is enabled for multi-core utilization, the game will crash if you toggle on the flashlight.
This problem was also apparent in Half-Life 2 Episode Two.
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KM is badass. He's a funny ass person whether you think he gets angry or not or just plays around. First time i joined this forum, i thought he was a asshole (in a joking way) but then i realized that is his personality. People are brought up in different ways and we have to deal with that.
Since this is the internet, we have to use common sense and also keep feelings to our selves. If you don't like the person, simply just ignore him instead of leaving bad comments which makes the other person feel offended or pissed.
Just saying.