GoldenEye: Source Forums
Debriefing => General Goldeneye => Topic started by: Maxaxle on September 23, 2009, 12:23:38 am
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It's in GE 64 and seems like a great way to make weak weapons stronger, like the Klobb. In exchange for dualies, the weapon accuracy will be halved (or worse!).
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As VC says, the fact that you have two of a certain gun doesn't increase its power at all, you're basically just firing twice as many bullets (two clips) in the same time as you would normally fire one. (VC himself could explain it better)
I do know however that the third-person character animations are going to look hilarious when you see Mishkin charging at you with an autoshotty in each hand.
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If we can support it in single we can support it in MP. The whole problem is supporting it at all.
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If i remember correctly, there was even the possibility to carry two Rocket Launchers in GE64.
Not sure if we should have every weapon Dual, but for stuff like Pistols, ZMG and even RCP-90, it should be.
As these weapons were carried as dual weapons in many movies.
I even saw Teal'c carry two P-90 (Stargate SG1 - episode 159, Avatar).
Just for the Rifles, Shotguns and Launchers i see a real Problem with the animations looking strange.
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We'll need a custom animation then. Crap... if only we had people who did animations, we could have dualies and a grenade launcher and Moonraker lasers. But we don't can haz.
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I really don't know anything about animation beyond that of a one month maya student, but would it really be that hard to animate dualies? There's really only one way to dual wield and fire a gun: both arms out, ridiculous looking or not or not.
As far as fairness goes, I'm not sure an accuracy penalty would even be necessary. As far as I could tell, it didn't affect your accuracy in the original, and as far as overpowered weapons goes, just define the off hand gun as a separate weapon and then tier the dualies accordingly like most games do.
On a side note, less than half accuracy for the klobb? You'd be more likely to shoot yourself, which at that point probably wouldn't be a terrible option.
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I'd love to see dual weapons in multiplayer, but I personally think the only weapons that you should be able to dual wield in multiplayer are the Klobb and the DD44... (perhaps PP7 and PP7 Silenced too) they aren't powerful, and especially the Klobb could use a dual ability for obvious reasons.
I've heard pretty much everyone wants dual klobbs to make them more useful.
I am absolutely against anything like dual shotguns or dual rcp90 in multiplayer, they are overkill already.
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Dual Watch Lasers would be nice.
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Why would you want to wear two watches?
You know... a man with a watch knows what time it is, a man with two watches is never quite sure :D
Furthermore how would you physically (animation-whise) activate them both, since you would have to press a button on the side of each watch?
I guess it would look very strange ~
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Someone missed the joke... well you got the physical part, but not that it was a JOKE. LOL
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I guess so .... although I don't think the irony in that post was really obvious Oo
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It's kinda like having Dual Remote Mines.... lol "Now with TWO detonators!"
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I detonate with my thoughts. This implementation is called "dual wielding" not dualies, they are weapons in CSS :P
I personally need every weapon to be dual-able. But only verses bots or something, because as stated, in 3rd person it will look silly with certain guns unless we make EVEN MORE animations for weapons, which is already a task of 2 devs that specialize in another area of production foremost. Meaning, this would stretch us much further.
Dual rocket launchers needs to exist. Hopefully we all agree on that :P
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On the animations, there's really only one way that the dual weapons could be held in the character animation; one in each hand. So there really only needs to be one animation since there's really no logical way a person could hold and fire a shotgun or any other 2-handed weapon. The tough part is what was said earlier, acquiring the model source (next to impossible because a lot of the models like the PP7 are old and the devs with the source files are no longer around), and then rigging and animating each of the 26 weapon viewmodels would take a very long time.
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Well, you could at least use the old mirror-the-right-hand trick and modify it. As for dualies, the N64 edition DID have you holding two AR33s as if they were pistols (iirc).
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Yes there were a few instances in singleplayer without cheats where you had illogical combinations of weapons.
The ones that spring to my mind are Jaws' dual AR33's that you can pick up and Xenia's Grenade launcher + RCP90 combo.
Aside from that if I recall correctly the only common dual weapons were the DD44, Klobb, PP7 Silenced, ZMG, Phantom, D5K, and Moonraker. Correct me if I'm wrong...
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As far as I know (and I just found this thread when wondering about dual-wield options for GES, and saw that this question was unanswered; I realize I am resurrecting an old post), as long as you had dual-wield for some weapons, you could make any combination with the other weapons you had. I recall spending quite some time trying to get the weapons right. I played a lot of singleplayer, and although it was difficult to do, I got good at it after a while.
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Yes but with our mod dualing is basically having to do animation for EVERY left hand weapon on top of the ones we have now.
Certainly, regardless of the theory of implementation, the act of doing it is a 6 month project across a few departments. So we will not say yes or no, based on that knowledge.
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Yeah, it does seem like a ton of work, but we'll get it eventually, right, RIGHT?
Ah whatever, it's your decision guys, we hardly have an effect on it.
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I think the only way Duals should work would be to pick up the same weapon from two different spawn points. That way it would prevent having like dual Golden Gun since no regular weapon set would have 2 in the same load out.
The basic though would it would be a console command to enable it, but I think it would be more practical to have its own Gameplay. The idea behind this is that GE007's multiplayer never had duals, so we should not make it a key gameplay point. I don't want to join a server to see duals everywhere.
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The idea behind this is that GE007's multiplayer never had duals, so we should not make it a key gameplay point. I don't want to join a server to see duals everywhere.
QFT. I am really against duals in multiplay. It screws up the whole dynamic. It may sound cool and look cool, but in reality it isn't cool unless you have dual rocket/grenade launchers in which case is pure ownage.
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Not to mention it being a huge hurdle to actually achieve and, make it work correctly. We're not ruling out dualies, it's just that we are trying to figure out the best way to do it, from a code and gameplay stand point to art side as well, or to just leave them out.
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maybe you should start with dual pistols only. I don´t think that dual granade launchers and rocket launchers are good ideas. they would ruin the gameplay..and it´s just weird
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Pardon my ignorance as I have very little experience in game-programming, but couldn't you just treat a dual weapon the same as a normal one (same rate of fire, ballistics, etc.) but just give it double the clip size and separate models/animations? I know the biggest part of it already would be the models and animations but Sean said from a code standpoint so I was just curious as to what else you had to think about?
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Knowing KM regardless of how difficult it is he could probably code it in an hour. The models and animations are nearly impossible due to the fact that we don't have the source files for a majority of the weapons models, and chances are we wouldn't be able to mirror the animations exactly and therefore it would look strange when the weapon was fired.
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Another main reason that Duals would not work as good in multiplayer is that in singleplayer, the guards did not have the hit delay that regular players have. this way every shot that was fired counted towards damage. In multiplayer, your first shot is counted, wait a second or so, then another shot is counted. You would be wasting twice the number of bullets and the chances that you run out of ammo goes up, thus proving that Duals do not help much, but rather are just a visual "Lol I has 2 weapons XD".
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Wow I am the only 1 that voted no!
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I am all for dual wielding klobbs. You get twice the chance of hitting something at a twice as fast reduced firing time (twice the bullits and timed invulnarability) as a penalty.
Also you could hit more people when there are a bunch of players in front of you. This would be nice for the Soviet and the Deutche, but useless for the AR33.
Dual third person rocket launcher animations... Fsck yeah! xD PArty hardy at cradle! ;D
PS: Oh and if you can fire with both hands individualy (left and right mouse button) then you could fire one gun empty and reload it while you are firing with the other one.
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Don't have majority of the source models? Whhat... I know I have all of mine, which is pretty much all of the weapons.
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View and world with their animation files and .smds? If so, put them on the SVN and I will love you forever (not that I already don't).
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I'd say at least Pistols and SMG's should be dualies.
Shotguns, Grenade Launcher, Rocket Launcher, Rifles, Mines, Grenades, RCP90 and Laser should remain single.
Dualies could make the pistols and SMG'S a little more appealing.
Ofc. only if you know how to handle them.
If you're spamming you'll only waste twice as much ammo, but if you use them the right way, you'll have nearly twice as long ammo before you need to reload.
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You would be wasting twice the number of bullets and the chances that you run out of ammo goes up, thus proving that Duals do not help much, but rather are just a visual "Lol I has 2 weapons XD".
I always assumed people wanted them for this reason more so than any other, since it would just make things ridiculous if it were to applied across the board. If it were to happen, I agree with Kraid, stick with pistols and light machine guns.
How long would it take to completely redo the models for any weapon not new to B4? I'm in no way suggesting start over if we cant get all the source files, just curious.
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A year or more if regular work is done. Talking about 10-15 weapons even if we have the current guides already to model off. Its not the models so much as the animation issue, if we get the sources. SSL may kill us all for us wanting 10+ dual equipped.
Really, this is mute, because it won't be an implementation for the next release. Short answer, probly not anytime soon guys. This is goldeneye "bonuses", the duals, and DK mode requests we are getting..