Debriefing > General Goldeneye
Thanks!!!
Loafie, Hero of Dreams:
haha, nobody should be called a fag for liking the original more
FlyBMXer4130:
I think the weapons in GE64 were perfectly "balanced;" I think you say balanced and you really mean to say everything is "equal." Why the heck would a Klobb be as powerful as an AR33 or a P90? I mean, it's a gun with horrible recoil, slow ROF, little power (9mm maybe?), compared to that of what, an assault rifle (.223?) at nearly twice the ROF and and power, too. If every weapon were the exact same there'd be no need for more than one gun, that'd be rather bland (not to mention unrealistic which some people bitch so much about).
CrzChris4:
One thing I really like that you guys did, is make Caves good. To me, I just don't really like the map. You get lost so easily, but it would make a really good single player mission where you have to kill Mayday, like the ending to the movie A View To A Kill.
And yes, all the guns in the game are different. I learned in Multiplayer that if you have a choice between the Klobb and the Slappers, I would rather go with the Slappers.
And hell no, the piece of crap Klobb doesn't equal the AR33, or RC-P90, and whoever said that, has never played the game. And for the record, I find PD's multiplayer only slightly better because there are bots, but I'd rather play against another human, or else I'd play single player.
Anyone here try playing through 007 Mode with all the settings up in Facility or Frigate? Well, I can do it. It's all about cover, and using your slappers. I suggest trying Facility first, since you get ammo and Remote Mines. In Frigate, your starved for ammo right off the bat, and it's way harder.
Peon:
Oh boy....I guess I'm going to have to go back and quote people so you understand what about balance I'm talking about. To explain what has transpired to FlyBMXer4130, here goes.....
What started everything was a claim by The Beatles pwn j00! when he said: "I for one can't wait until the mod consists of more than just good atmosphere and pretty graphics. You know, like, playability. Such as a halfway decent weapon balance." In some of his other posts he is specific in his criticism, saying that the ZMG is way more powerfull than the other guns in the game so far. That's the "balance" that he is talking about being off.
Then I replied to that by saying: "As far as having problems with gun balance.....I don't know WTF you are talking about. I am murdering folks very quickly with just about every gun."
I followed it up with: "I thought the whole point of having guns in your game at all is that they might all be....DIFFERENT! Maybe with qualities that allow different players to do better with certain guns."
Then Oboe said: "Yes, the guns were balanced in the original."
Then I said: "Don't try to tell me that a Klobb is just as powerfull as a RCP90...I've been stuck with a pistol fighting someone who has an AR33 enough times to know that not all the guns are balanced. If anything this Beta is MORE balanced."
So....according the definition of balanced being that all guns are equal, Goldeneye is not balanced. BUT....Like I said before....and you just said: "If every weapon were the exact same there'd be no need for more than one gun," that the whole point of the game's guns is that they are all different.
You there you have it....you made the same point that I did, according to the REAL definition of balanced. The balance of gun power depends on the situation when all of the guns are different.....like we've established that they should be. I only said this mod was more balanced because there's no RCP90, AR33, Klobb, Moonraker Laser, Gold PP7, Rocket Launcher, or Grenade Launcher in it yet. What I have seen, as far as the guns that are in it go, is that the ZMG doesn't outclass the KF7 by that much, and up close the Auto-Shotgun beats them both. Even pistols seem to kill fast....hell, I've beaten several people at range who had ZMGs by pistol sniping them.
So......that should clarify the whole saga.....and to think it all started with me thanking the mod team for such a great version....that I still like a lot......and has many positives over the original....which have been detailed here extensively.
oboe:
Inverted Shadow -
I'm not sour, I've been completely civil and congratulatory.
Klobb being 'equal' to AR33 and/or RCP90 -
Of course in a direct fire fight you're not going to win with a klobb, but it's all about strategy. Let's take death match for example, probably from the last time you got killed, you injured your enemy, if you've got a klobb, you've got to be a cheap ass and do your best to sneak/run/hide and get as many potshots in as possible.
The weapons were balanced, you just have to know how to play with them. I never said that they were equal, if each gun was equal to another the game wouldn't be any fun.
Beta is better than complete game -
It isn't. That's like saying the 'leaked hl2 content' is better than current half-life 2.
The original Goldeneye 64 is a full and complete game, sure it isn't free, you can't buy it from retail stores anymore.
But you also have to acknowledge the existance of the black market. And that most people would rather pay for a full game than have a free beta.
(I.E. newbs coming in asking 'how much do I have to pay upon release?' because they want to pay for a full version, then they get really hyped when they find out 'o lol, don't have to pay.')
And who brought up the 'for it's time' issue?
Was Goldeneye the greatest game for it's time? I don't know, I only played it much after it was released. Was it one of the most influential games of it's time? I'd like to think so, it's a large factor in Microsofts Halo, which whether you like it or not, is the biggest (maybe not the best) game of our time. They're going to be selling Masterchiefs at burger king! Your fries will come in little pods!
Goldeneye helped to inspire that.
And yes, I've gone to lan parties, but it doesn't change the fact that in my personal preference I'd rather invite us all over to play Goldeneye 007 64 on my big screen T.V. as opposed to playing GE:S with the current netcode bugs (not the dev's fault) and needing each person to have their own copy of steam, hl2/srcsdkengine, and PC. Because to be honest a lot of my friends don't have PC's that can handle hl2, they spent their money on 360s and PS3s.
To Spider -
I have no doubt that every one on the team wants to make a tribute to the original Goldeneye 64 while improving upon it, but you know how us kids get, give us a little sugar, we get a little hyper, and do crazy things. The intentions are there, clearly, but sometimes people get ahead of themselves and start doing things that they don't agree with, without realizing much later that they shouldn't have done it. I.E. Boris
But most definitely, I'm am for things that make the game play better (jumping, online multiplayer, brilliant additions! lol). But of course there are some things you could do that would detract (adding the gravity gun, adding lua to the level of Gmod, maybe adding a web browser even).
I'm confident that with the playtesters you have, you're testing ideas, seeing which ones are fun, feasible, and over all awesome. But please remember that it's a video game, not an all in one application. Just because, yeah you can add lua, you can add phong and bloom to everything, doesn't mean it should be done. I like to see new features, but only and if only they improve gameplay, making it more fun, or strategic.
And on the subject of Music, Basstronix (Trent Robertson) has done a wonderful job, although I would like to see him do some crazy mixes that have little to nothing to do with the originals (like maybe some Jazz or Kabuki versions of different levels, as opposed to hard rock and techno), he still does a great job and the tracks sound awesome.
Oh, and to Konrad,
The point was to illustrate that no matter how far you guys have come to this point, until you've reached final it's an incomplete game and cannot be compared to the original, as to which is better.
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