Debriefing > Impressions & Feedback
So far what I think and what needs to be touched on
Flash2011:
Well, this is really cool. I love GoldenEye:Source its super awesome and I think the devs did a bang up job on recreating a classic. Its almost exactly how I remember GoldenEye on the N64.
However, being exactly how I remember it might be good for nostalgia it doesn't exactly make for great gameplay and what I'm writing about here is about how in order for the game to be good in my opinion it needs to evolve.
First off, there is a reason no plays GoldenEye anymore and games today aren't made like it. It's a very outdated shooter.
The most popular styles of FPS today either utilize the ADS (Aim Down Sight) method or the tap burst fire method (Counter Strike). GE:Source uses neither and instead gives up the old school crosshair on shift.
What I have noticed with the crosshair is that it doesn't seem to do anything really. It isn't making my shots more accurate (if it is making shots more accurate, it's only because i can see where I'm aiming). If I use the crosshair and burst fire, it doesn't increase my accuracy, I can just full auto and its' the same, in or out of holding shift.
MOST people are going to say, "But GE:64 didn't have a normal crosshair and this source version is a perfect clone if it". This saying is exactly why FPS aren't made like this anymore, because it's bad mechanics.
The aiming is extremely flawed, no one can really control where they place their shots. You just point and shoot. Aiming and not aiming seem to be no different in how the bullets spread.
Secondly, the guns. The guns need to have more to them than what they are now because basically what this game has is just the same gun over and over just more powerful and who ever has the most powerful gun gets the most kills. An example of this would be the PP7 and DD4, the DD4 shoots a little faster and has 1 more bullet or the AR33 and the KF7, these 2 are almost the same gun. Without recoil there's no real way to differ from each gun. All i've done is search for AR33 or RCP90 and unload on people, which takes forever to kill someone.
Thirdly, the health. It seems like people last forever outside of License to Kill mode, you can unload clips on people and no one dies. There needs to be a better way to know if you're hitting people or not. Health needs to be scaled down or bullet damage increased (PP7 and DD4 I believe do the same damage and so does AR33 and KF7).
Lastly the mechanics. This is the huge part of my post because most of these mechanics are extremely dated and need to be revamped. You're releasing on the PC a game that was meant for 4 people with controllers. Most of the mechanics on the N64 were designed for the N64 and with only 4 people in mind, not up to 20 or more players. An example of this are the maps (some are huge and some are expanded upon), some of the maps remain the same size which is too small for the amount of possible players. The reloading is dated, the downside to unloading your gun is non-existent because all guns reload instantly which gives player the idea that spraying is the best possible method of killing.
Remaking a classic should never be remade word for word because what's the point in that? Movies that are remakes featuring about 99% of the exact same thing are terrible because movie goers feel that if they wanted the original they would just watch the original. Good remakes are movies such as Dawn of the Dead which follows the same plot but is HUGELY expanded on and involves new mechanics if you will, RUNNING ZOMBIES.
Please read this article from IGN. It was very interesting to read about how players act about old classics and why they're not fun anymore.
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/118/1183561p1.html
tl;dr: GE:Source needs to evolve beyond the original game, because the original is just too dated.
killermonkey:
Thank you for you input, if we were talking about closeness to a retail game, would you say we should strive for Halo 3 or COD 4/5/6/GE: Wii?
Flash2011:
I'm not saying that this needs to be exactly like Call of Duty or Halo at ALL (Though there is a reason outside of being AAA titles why people play and continue to play them). What i'm trying to say is that you should be evolving what GE:64 was. Take it to a new level expand on what you know.
I'm a game designer (going to school for it) and I do not at all want to sound like i'm hating on your mod, I like it for what is.
I guess what i'm saying is, if people wanted to play GoldenEye:Source they could just as easily pick up GE:64 and get almost the same exact game because very little has changed. Currently as it is I can only play GE:Source for a very short amount of time because I lose interest in it because of the old frustrating mechanics.
Mangley:
--- Quote from: Flash2011 on July 26, 2011, 12:56:04 am ---First off, there is a reason no plays GoldenEye anymore and games today aren't made like it. It's a very outdated shooter.
The most popular styles of FPS today either utilize the ADS (Aim Down Sight) method or the tap burst fire method (Counter Strike). GE:Source uses neither and instead gives up the old school crosshair on shift.
--- End quote ---
So, instead of using more original and faithful aiming mechanics a game should pander to the lowest common denominator and copy mechanics from the most popular games? What's the point in having different games if they are all mechanically the same game?
--- Quote from: Flash2011 on July 26, 2011, 12:56:04 am ---What I have noticed with the crosshair is that it doesn't seem to do anything really. It isn't making my shots more accurate (if it is making shots more accurate, it's only because i can see where I'm aiming). If I use the crosshair and burst fire, it doesn't increase my accuracy, I can just full auto and its' the same, in or out of holding shift.
--- End quote ---
Wrong. Using your crosshair increases your bullet accuracy.
--- Quote from: Flash2011 on July 26, 2011, 12:56:04 am ---Secondly, the guns. The guns need to have more to them than what they are now because basically what this game has is just the same gun over and over just more powerful and who ever has the most powerful gun gets the most kills. An example of this would be the PP7 and DD4, the DD4 shoots a little faster and has 1 more bullet or the AR33 and the KF7, these 2 are almost the same gun. Without recoil there's no real way to differ from each gun. All i've done is search for AR33 or RCP90 and unload on people, which takes forever to kill someone.
--- End quote ---
All I can say to this is learn to play. We use an invulnerability and damage system that rewards aim and precision and taking careful shots, if you spray at people with powerful weapons you are just going to waste bullets. Use the crosshair, aim for the head, use small bursts of fire.
--- Quote from: Flash2011 on July 26, 2011, 12:56:04 am ---Lastly the mechanics. This is the huge part of my post because most of these mechanics are extremely dated and need to be revamped. You're releasing on the PC a game that was meant for 4 people with controllers. Most of the mechanics on the N64 were designed for the N64 and with only 4 people in mind, not up to 20 or more players. An example of this are the maps (some are huge and some are expanded upon), some of the maps remain the same size which is too small for the amount of possible players. The reloading is dated, the downside to unloading your gun is non-existent because all guns reload instantly which gives player the idea that spraying is the best possible method of killing.
--- End quote ---
GE:S isn't a clone of GoldenEye 64, our gameplay is suitably adapted for more players and is more scalable. Your gripe about level size is so far the only one that has any validity or sense to it, we're currently working on new features that will solve this, including integrated map voting and dynamic map layout changes allowing areas of maps to be locked off or opened up dynamically depending on player count and game mode.
I'd be interested to know exactly what it is about modern aiming mechanics that makes them superior to older arcade style mechanics, given that games like Quake are still played in professional tournaments.
killermonkey:
Suggested reading: http://wiki.goldeneyesource.net/index.php/V4.1_Release_Documentation#Gameplay_Fundamentals
I appreciate your angle, however you are not a "game designer" if you are still in school. You are a student who someday, hopefully, will be a game designer. I am not a game designer, this is a hobby of mine.
Anywho, I hope you learn from our game design and apply it in some of your classes!
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