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God and the universe...

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WatchMyTrace:

--- Quote from: JessEH [The Beatles pwn j00!] on August 28, 2009, 11:18:01 pm ---Disaster? Did people die because of it? Or... what?

Yes it's bound to cause some people anger, grief, confusion, frustration, etc.. It's a very serious topic, and one that shouldn't be ignored. Let people say what they want to say. If people are acting down right ugly and unruly, moderators should step in and restore order, so that mindful discussion/debate can continue. If the topic makes you uncomfortable just take a break, or just forget it exists.

Speaking of which, I'm gonna ignore this topic for a few days. I'm winded.

--- End quote ---

There is no possible conclusion to draw for this debate it's going on for centuries.  I could sit here and literally post thousands of scientific facts to back up my beliefs and you could do the same by quoting every scripture in the book or discussing intangible spiritual properties that have no rebuttal.  There will forever be two sides to this discussion and trying to convince someone in either camp to come over to your side is futile,  if someone has ever converted there belief system because of a internet forum discussion let me know.

Rodney 1.666:

--- Quote from: WatchMyTrace on August 30, 2009, 01:29:40 am ---There is no possible conclusion to draw for this debate it's going on for centuries.  I could sit here and literally post thousands of scientific facts to back up my beliefs and you could do the same by quoting every scripture in the book or discussing intangible spiritual properties that have no rebuttal.  There will forever be two sides to this discussion and trying to convince someone in either camp to come over to your side is futile,

--- End quote ---

QFT

Extension of what I said earlier.
Course it's only a "disaster" when the flames start a flying.

killermonkey:
OK, no need to throw around the ol' Douche-Bag comments. That is like opening up the flame throwing. We can all just pretend that post was never written.

However, he did mention my moniker and I would like to explain my first post which I reluctantly didn't after being baited to by Beatles on page 2 (i believe).

I think being an engineer, a serious scientist, and any other very physically minded profession is very relevant to the religious debate. There are definitely many religious engineers and scientists out there, but I think their believe in religion is VERY different then non-engineers/scientists.

I am an Electrical Engineer, a major that is barely over 100 years old, yet has ballooned into one of the most influential fields on earth today. Topics ranging from radio waves all the way to circuitry and control theory (my field) all give a piece to describing, mathematically and analytically, a lot of the "magic" things that happen on this planet and around the solar system and universe. It is almost impossible for me to accept the fact that there is an "intelligent designer" somewhere or a "great overseer", believe me I have tried. I have read a large majority of the bible as a child, (which by the way was NOT written by God, at least the New Testament, which is accounts from Jesus' disciples...), I went to Sunday school and even tried to believe, but there was always this nagging notion in the back of my mind that none of this really matters.

I am a huge fan of the medieval times because that is the time in human history when religion and the believe that all things that happened were tied to God, etc. We now look back on that time and realize how stupid those people were. The plague, for example, Which burnings, the inquisition, I can go on. Will our descendents look back on us in a thousand years and say the same thing? ABSOLUTELY. This is because the more we find out about WHY things happen in this world and around us, the LESS we need to rely on explaining it away with some "higher power".

This all ties into my Engineer comment because as an engineer I am constantly trying to discover why things work, understand the interactions in this world, and create new and exciting technologies with those understandings. I really have no room to rely on some unknown power to do things for me or guide me because it doesn't help my life whatsoever.

I am not being rude or whatever, I am just supporting my previous one sentence description.

The Beatles pwn j00!:
The unsaved are so bent on clinging to this life. They think reality only consists of what we can experience with our senses. They are only concerned with the here and now. Everything is mechanical and soulless to them. Meaningless. But it is only human. Our hearts are desperately wicked. Yet the Lord makes himself known in so many ways, that we might use our free will to turn from our sick nature and know him.

Many delude themselves to think they are basically good and happy, and that they have no need for God. But this is a lie. It's a facade. And you know it deep inside. You try to run from the pain. Hide it. Bury it. But it is always there. And only the Lord Jesus Christ can heal that pain. We even try to convince ourselves that the sickness in us is actually good. We feed the confusion. This world loves confusion. It IS confusion for those who hate the Lord. We make the hole bigger and bigger, running from the light. Some make it so big that they fall in. Like your friend Nickster. But even if the hole is small, you will still be thrown into the fire when you die. For God, in all his glorious perfection, cannot allow even the smallest hole in his presence. He has given you the remedy, and he has made it clear. You can't realize it with your small finite logic, but only with your eternal heart. Your true self.

The point is for us to choose either this world, or God and his perfect world to come. And the way he has set this up is flawless. We must choose him by faith. And when you do, you WILL know it, and you WILL see him in the world to come.

And what's all this about believers being stupid or inferior? You have no reason to say this, besides the sickness in your heart. You curse and hate, and you glory in it. Has embracing your darkness made you so smart, Sharp? Mac? Then show me how smart you are. Show me what good darkness has done for you. All I see is hate and arrogance.

In the couple years since I have sincerely accepted the Lord, I am slowly but surely changing. I have become aware of how detestable I once was (and still am). I have given up smoking cigarettes (it's been five months now). My thought life is becoming noble. Things that were once hazy are now becoming clear. What I feel is profound.

You need to keep your heart open. I too "tried" and "wanted" to believe as a child, but ended up thinking along the lines you guys are. The world hardened my heart, as it has yours. But any real understanding didn't start for me until recently. You've got to overcome your hardened hearts once more and see the light. Please pick up your Bible once more. And all of this is talked about IN the Bible! Ahh! It's so profound! All of these feelings you guys have, why we feel it, how we feel it, how we can overcome it, our situations, everything! True wisdom! It's all in there! So profound!

Please START with the New Testament, indeed, it all points to the Lord Jesus Christ. And how can you TRULY understand and use the wisdom in the Old Testament without first receiving the Holy Spirit?

I wish I had better words. Perhaps I will as time passes. The learning never ends.

(Rusky, why is it "retarded"? Perhaps I did say something foolish there. For we are new creations in Christ. But if you implying that believing in The Word, The Bible, is retarded then how can you claim to be Christian yet deny His Word? This is all too common, tragically. jjmusicnotes has also claimed to be with Christ yet has said things that may indicate otherwise. Perhaps you are saved, but just said something foolish. That can't be helped. As I said, the learning never ends, and we are still young in the faith.)
Anyway guys, just know this. I love you all. And there is indeed a God who loves you more than you can imagine.

I wish you true love and happiness. Not the joke the world has built. Am I "stupid" for this?

Kinky:
There is no "darkness" in my heart.
I am happy
I choose this world
And i dont want love from "your God"

See the problem is people like you think that reading scripture and preaching to non believers is going to comfort us or make us "see the light".

Tbh mate... im somewhat insulted. If you want to believe in a higher power then thats all gravy. But dont try to tell me that my heart is hardened and that i have accepted darkness. That is pure BS and essentially you are saying that you are better than me for your beliefs. Doesnt your precious book tell you to love thy neightbour? ...then how about respecting our right to believe something different to you without cramming your beliefs down our throats.

This topic isnt going anywhere but into flames. It should be locked...

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