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[DaDude]

Remember AGES ago I asked what PC you reccommended? Well, now my Comm. Tech teacher says I should really consider an iMac over PC, especially for creating music. I'm just wondering, is it worth it? I mean, I've only been on iMacs for a few days every week in class, if that. I've always been a Windows user. I am extremly intrigued though, and believe I might start to grow on to it after a while.

Do you think I should get an iMac? Or just stick with Windows? Some of the iMacs look amazing, especially the Pro version. I mean, 16 GB Ram? I didn't even dream of that much for this generation when thinking of getting a Windows. Heck, it's almost overkill. The iMacs do cost a lot though (at least $3000).

If I am to get one, is there any you reccommend? I don't want to overkill my system here, as I'm just starting with iMac. I'm also wondering if I'd be able to run Windows (well) if I dislike iMac.

And finally... is it able to run Source games? XD

Thanks in advance.

Possible Combinations for iMac:
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/canadastore.woa/wa/RSLID?nnmm=browse&mco=7B723661&node=home/shop_mac/family/imac

Possible Combinations for Pro:
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/canadastore.woa/wa/RSLID?nnmm=browse&mco=7B723664&node=home/shop_mac/family/mac_pro

Here is what I think is a good setup:

iMac:
Ram: 4GB 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM - 2x2GB
Hard Drive: 500 GB Serial ATA Drive
Apple Mouse: Apple Mighty Mouse
Keyboard: English
iWork 08: No
Aperture: No
Logic Express: Yes
.Mac: 1 Year Basic Membership
Modem: No
APP: Yes

Subtotal: $3,696.00

Ram: 4 GB was what I originally planned. Too much?
Hard Drive: 500 GB Serial ATA Drive. Already filled up my previous hard drive, after 2 years! (with 200 GB). Shame I can?t have a backup hard drive with this setup.
Apple Mouse: I really don?t care for wireless if the cable is long enough, to be honest. I never take my mouse/keyboard around much anyway.
Keyboard: I really don?t care for wireless if the cable is long enough, to be honest. I never take my mouse/keyboard around much anyway.
iWork 08: Would OpenOffice do? It?s free, but a bit glitchy. Any huge benefits?
Aperture: Needed? Use Photoshop Instead?
Logic Express: Yes? It?s audio, so? *Need assistance in more audio programs, etc*
.Mac: 1 Year Basic Membership. To publish work?
Modem: Is it really needed? Doubt it.
APP: Yes, I presume. I seem to always have at least one (not usually major) thing happen to my computers. First one had faulty hard disk, second PC had a Motherboard meltdown (ironically due to a teacher knocking it ? I never told her, as there?s nothing she could do, and everything is fine in the end).

Pro:
CPU: Two 2.0GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon
Ram: 4GB (4 x 1GB)
RAID Card: No
Hard Drive 1: 500 GB
Hard Drive 2: 500 GB
Hard Drive 3: None
Hard Drive 4: None
Graphics: ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB (2 x dual-link DVI)
Display: Apple Cinema HD Display (30" flat panel)
Second Display: None
Optical Drive: One 16x SuperDrives
Wireless Options: None
Fibre Channel Card: None
Modem: None
Keyboard & Mouse: Apple Keyboard and Mighty Mouse - U.S. English
Mac OS X Language: U.S. English
Mac OS X Server v10.5: None
iWork 08: No
Aperture: No
Logic Express: Yes
.Mac: 1 Year Basic Membership
APP: Yes

Subtotal: $6,804.00

CPU: Not sure on what to get. At all.
Ram: 4 GB was what I originally planned. Will this be enough?
RAID Card: What does this do? Don't understand their description.
Hard Drive: I would like 500 GB if possible. I want two, one as back up. The third one would be a luxury, not needed. Definitely don?t need four.
Graphics: ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB (2 x dual-link DVI). This was a video card I was recommended a few months ago for PC. Is it good for iMac? On a side note
Display: Apple Cinema HD Display (30" flat panel). Larger the better.
Second Display: Not sure if needed.
Optical Drive: I don?t burn disks much. Not needed?
Wireless Options: I might be able to use BlueTooth in future, but not sure. WiFi needed?
Fibre Channel Card: Not sure what this does.
Modem: Is it really needed? Doubt it.
Keyboard & Mouse: Apple Keyboard and Mighty Mouse - U.S. English. I really don?t care for wireless if the cable is long enough, to be honest. I never take my mouse/keyboard around much anyway.
Mac OS X Language: U.S. English
Mac OS X Server v10.5: Not needed, I presume. It'll likely be just me on this iMac.
iWork 08: Would OpenOffice do? It?s free, but a bit glitchy. Any huge benefits?
Aperture: Needed? Photoshop?
Logic Express: Yes? It?s audio, so? *Need assistance in more audio programs, etc*
.Mac: 1 Year Basic Membership. To publish work?
APP: Yes, I presume. I seem to always have at least one (not usually major) thing happen to my computers. First one had faulty hard disk, second PC had a Motherboard meltdown (ironically due to a teacher knocking it ? I never told her, as there?s nothing she could do, and everything is fine in the end).
Sound Card?


I'll come here tomorrow, once I talk to the teacher again. Thanks in advance.   

[Jeron [SharpSh00tah]]

you really are going to dish seven grand for a computer? shit if you are get the ALX SLI liquid cooled

[Loafie, Hero of Dreams]

Well that really depends on the situation in which you're going to be making music, such as a studio or production group. Alot of programs run just as well on both platforms, and you're files are equally transferable so if the situation doesn't matter than the OS is more a personal choice. OSX is obviously a much more stable platform and less susceptible to virii, making your compositions much more secure, and now you can dual boot windows of a separate partition or even a separate hdd, so you can play source games just as easily. I don't think I need to say anything about Vista.

If you're willing to throw down $7k for a rig however, I'd either go for a souped up MacPro (which has greater avenues for expandability) and some professional quality headphones, or build a cheaper windows rig from scratch use the extra cash on an awesome monitor system and some sound isolation stuff. If you go mac, buy the ram from a secondary source like OtherWorldComputing which is certified but much more inexpensive. It's already been proven that you can drop in new intel cpus and they work, so now macpro users have a fairly promising upgrade path.

Really the only hardware advantage a windows machine has is easy access to gpu upgrades and SLI, everything else is just as easily configurable on a mac.

Also, the 30" screen is overkill and twice the cost of the 23" screen, which you can double up for the same price and works much better in a pipeline setup. An even better idea would be to pick up some 24" screens from newegg for about $600 each. Get HDDs from newegg too, as right now you can get a terabyte hdd for $300.

For Audio out, you can get a firewire or usb outs for production, while the onboard card is fine for something like games and films.

And if you're going to spend this much money on a rig, get a better software package then Logic Express, like Logic Studio (great deal for $500), Reason 4, ProTools or a professional Cakewalk Sonar suite. Or really go deep and get some hardware like a mixer and midi input keyboard. This is really Bass's area, so hopefully he'll comment on that.

And always always always get the protection plan.

Also everybody keep in mind these figures are in canadian dollars, so the figure will usually seem high for americans.

[Shaken not Stirred]

iMac is for the casual audience. It may excel in ease, but when push comes to shove, PC is going to suffice.

[Loafie, Hero of Dreams]

What's "push comes to shove"?

[DaDude]

Well, I have made even more decisions. Apparantly, I should stick with Pro, as an iMac itself is not the best choice, as you can get a PC running iMac. I'd like to run an iMac that's very good. I thought my current PC would be nice, but it's starting to show it's age. I want to sell it while it can still get some money. I'll post my current PC soon.

For RAM, you are correct, RAM is getting cheaper by the year. I am still going to get 2GB for now, but I will upgrade to 4GB later (or more, if it gets even more cheaper).

For the CPU, I'm going to buy the second one, as it should do everything I want no problem.

I'm probably going to buy a 23" Monitor from Apple. However, I might buy one from somewhere else instead though.

I'm a little worried on the video card. I don't know whether to buy their ATi 1900, as while it runs all games on high right now, there are "better" cards out there I believe. So I might buy the ATi 1900 if I get lazy.

For Audio, I agree. I will look around for that. If Bass can't reply, I'll get my other good audio friend to help.

I'll post an update on what I should buy. Only Pro specs now.

CPU: Two 2.66GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon
Ram: 2GB, upgrade later
RAID Card: None
Hard Drive 1: 500GB
Hard Drive 2: 500GB (for Time Travel)
Graphics: ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB (2 x dual-link DVI). Might purchase the nVidia 7300, and then get a better card from somewhere else.
Display: Apple Cinema HD Display 23"
Second Display: None
Optical Drive: Still unsure, going to research
Wireless Options: Yes to WiFi, no to BlueTooth. Not 100% decided.
Fibre Channel Card: None
Modem: None
Keyboard & Mouse: Apple Keyboard and Mighty Mouse
Mac OS X Language: U.S. English
Mac OS X Server v10.5: None
iWork 08: Yes, apparantly very good.
Aperture: Not needed.
Logic Express: None, but I'm getting Logic Pro from somewhere else.
.Mac: None, if I want it, I should subscribe later.
APP: Yes

I will also need:
- High Quality Headphones, maybe also 5.1 Surround System Speakers.
- Audio programs, such as Logic Pro, Reason 4 (the new one is out already?), ProTools. All of them? Also, is Cakewalk needed?

Or really go deep and get some hardware like a mixer and midi input keyboard. This is really Bass's area, so hopefully he'll comment on that.

Side question: Can iMac play more than one region DVDs? I have quite a few UK DVDs (Region 2, PAL, whatever).

Thank you very much so far. Anyway for me to help you in return?

Edit: Also, how good would my current setup be able to play Crysis? And what Video Card do you advice if it was a seperate purchase?

[EduCatOR]

iMac is for the casual audience. It may excel in ease, but when push comes to shove, PC is going to suffice.

PC's will suffice...but if you plan to do any kind of creative work other then coding, Mac's are the industry standard. Any professional "creative" work you see is most likely done on the Mac.

[Polizei]

i saw a lady making a magazine page on a mac the other day so does that mean macs are better i need 2 know


ps it was a cooking magazine if that hepls

[Konrad Beerbaum]

PC's will suffice...but if you plan to do any kind of creative work other then coding, Mac's are the industry standard. Any professional "creative" work you see is most likely done on the Mac.

Heh, not really.  That might have been true 10 years ago, but it isn't now. While macs are common in audio, graphic design, and some video editing, it certainly isn't "industry standard" and 3D work and game design is overwelmingly pc.

For someone focusing on audio, yea a mac would probably be better because of certain software and hardware accessories that are available (this is what i observed in school, and from my roommate who was an audio engineer), but for graphic design and video editing it doesn't matter which you go with (unless you want to use final cut pro).  For 3D and game design, I would definitely go with the pc because of the software and versatility that is needed. 

[Konrad Beerbaum]

Basically how I look at it is that if you are focusing on audio a mac would probably be the better choice.  For anything else though, you will be able to get significantly better parts/performance for the same price with a custom built pc.  Sure you can dual boot the mac if you want to, but you will also be paying a bit more for a bit less performance.  There is also the gaming issue, and well, gaming is crap on a mac.  You'll have to dual boot. 

Video card wise, the Nvidia 8800 series is the way to go.  ATI is unfortunately inferior when it comes to 3d  software.  I have an ati card, so i'm not biased, but the ati drivers just don't work as well for 3d.  For example, I can't view normal maps in realtime in Maya because of driver issues, while nvidia cards work just fine.  In addition Nvidia just has better cards out right now.  Nvidia just released the 8800GT, which is a $250 card that performs almost as well as their $500 card.  That would be my recommendation.  At this moment, its pretty scarce due to the huge demand and low availability, but it seems to be worth waiting for.

[Shaken not Stirred]

"Why don't you make one of those websites for your landlord to pay the rent?"

[EduCatOR]

Mac's are still very much the industry standard for a lot of studios...it just depends what kind of work you're actually doing. Any kind of audio/video/design definitely goes to the mac. Final Cut Studio, apple motion, apple shake, etc.

If you can dual boot, why in the hell would you not want to? (best of both worlds??)

Keep in mind the apple computer with all that software is quite expensive...although you already seem like youre going to spend a good dollar on whatever system you get. You'd probably get Vista with your new PC anyway. (lawl)

[DaDude]

Thanks guys, sorry for the late reply. Yes, the decision is final. I am going to get an iMac for Audio, and a few other things. 3D work isn't for me, and Video, well, I do plan to get Final Cut Express which is nice, etc. I'm also going to install XP with BootCamp.

I would have upgraded the video card, but apparently, it's impossible for iMacs (which sucks hardcore if true). Ironically, the Video Card in the MacBook Pro is currently better than the desktop cards (iMac = ATi 2600, Mac Pro = ATi 1900, MacBook Pro = nVidia 8600).

I think I'll just end up getting an Xbox 360 one day in a year or two. There was a few Xbox titles that interested me anyway... I'll focus my other needs on the iMac.

Thanks for your time guys.

[EduCatOR]

If you want more power just get the desktop versions of the g5. Then again you're looking at another pretty penny for the monitor, but they should have all the power you need. If you're doing the whole audio thing and also want final cut, just go get the final cut studio (not exactly sure if it's different then the "express" you mention). You'll get Soundtrack Pro, which is a pretty nice program IMO. (The studio will run you about $1300 more)

Also, if you're into audio checkout a program called Orion Platinum. I just received it and let me tell ya, its GOOD stuff. 

[DaDude]

If you want more power just get the desktop versions of the g5. Then again you're looking at another pretty penny for the monitor, but they should have all the power you need. If you're doing the whole audio thing and also want final cut, just go get the final cut studio (not exactly sure if it's different then the "express" you mention). You'll get Soundtrack Pro, which is a pretty nice program IMO. (The studio will run you about $1300 more)

Also, if you're into audio checkout a program called Orion Platinum. I just received it and let me tell ya, its GOOD stuff. 

Thanks for the suggestions. Unfortunatly, G5 is not Intel based (as far as I know), which means it isn't Windows compatible, which defeats the entire purpose of getting a strong Mac in the first place. For Final Cut, there's two versions: Final Cut Express 4 ($199), and Final Cut Studio 2 ($1299). I am not certain of the features yet, but I plan to research more when I come to purchase this (I am going to buy this at a later date). For Soundtrack Pro, I believe it comes with another program I'm buying, Logic Studio 2, so no worries about losing it if I use Final Cut Express.

Finally, thanks for the tip on Orion, I'll look it up right now.