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Death

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Re: Gun damage
« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2016, 10:28:17 am »

In past versions, yes. After every hit an invulnerability time would trigger on the opponent, meaning they'd take no damage at all for a brief period of time (maximum of 1.6 seconds if I remember correctly). This has been heavily tweaked for 5.0, I'll quote what Media 2 post said.

so... this mod rewards bad players with poor positioning / poor surroundings awareness?? LOL.

so instead of careful 1 vs 1 combat you are better off running and being shot at by multiple enemies at once so you become invulnerable haha

no wonder ive been in situations when its 1v4 and ive been able to kill them all with ease, you only take some damage when being shot by multiable
enemies at once, that explains a lot and is a terrible idea.

is this invincibility exposed in a config file / as a variable?
« Last Edit: August 14, 2016, 11:54:00 am by Death »
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Graslu

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Re: Gun damage
« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2016, 12:38:12 pm »

The point of this game is to engage combat always instead of trying to be situational or "careful", just like most arena shooters. It's weird to see someone getting focused on unless they're teaming on FFA (Which is bad) or something else like people shooting at the MWGG carrier, so seeing the invulnerability trigger is rare.

This is not about careful combat or rewarding poor positioning, you're supposed to be moving at all times, always; else you'll probably end up lower in the scoreboard since you only get situational kills without engaing into the combat.

You just have to take the invulnerability into account, that's why experienced players will know how fast to shoot or when to shoot instead of spamming into the enemies' chest or sometihng. If invulnerability triggers, you'll hear a different hitsound which sounds like a bullet passing next to you.

As for the invulnerability file, it's here. Look for "CalcInvul"

Entropy-Soldier

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Re: Gun damage
« Reply #32 on: August 14, 2016, 12:45:02 pm »

Invulnerability is specifically designed to protect you in cases where 4 people decide to gang up on you, though it is more of a FFA mechanic than a team one.  You're still going to take more damage than you would 1v1, you're just limited in how much damage you can take within a certain period.  I would not advise engaging multiple people at once if it's at all avoidable.

If you really want to turn it off there's a method to do so through gamemode coding but it's not pretty.  We consider it a core mechanic of the game and thus want the experience to be consistent.  Future versions of the game might see the mechanic adjusted further but right now we think it's in a passable state.


Anyway as far as weapon spread modifications go I tested your file and it predictably makes the weapon go absolutely bonkers.  Are you sure you're replacing the file correctly?  The engine will always prioritize .ctx files over .txt ones and will ignore all .txt files if there is a single .ctx file in the directory.

I have no objections to you messing with the weapon values, but if you host a server with changed weapon files please CLEARLY MARK IT IN THE TITLE.


Anyway, glad you're enjoying GE:S enough to have so much dedication to improving it!
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Death

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Re: Gun damage
« Reply #33 on: August 14, 2016, 01:23:56 pm »

Invulnerability is specifically designed to protect you in cases where 4 people decide to gang up on you, though it is more of a FFA mechanic than a team one.  You're still going to take more damage than you would 1v1, you're just limited in how much damage you can take within a certain period.  I would not advise engaging multiple people at once if it's at all avoidable.

If you really want to turn it off there's a method to do so through gamemode coding but it's not pretty.  We consider it a core mechanic of the game and thus want the experience to be consistent.  Future versions of the game might see the mechanic adjusted further but right now we think it's in a passable state.


Anyway as far as weapon spread modifications go I tested your file and it predictably makes the weapon go absolutely bonkers.  Are you sure you're replacing the file correctly?  The engine will always prioritize .ctx files over .txt ones and will ignore all .txt files if there is a single .ctx file in the directory.

I have no objections to you messing with the weapon values, but if you host a server with changed weapon files please CLEARLY MARK IT IN THE TITLE.


Anyway, glad you're enjoying GE:S enough to have so much dedication to improving it!

Well if you only go invulnerable with 4+ attacking thats not really a issue imo,

yeah that file is a bit extreme after relooking i just realized i left the kick at 100,
without the kick at 100 the spread is virtually zero. i'm not after some crazy slow paced shooter
spread, but atleast "some" recoil haha.

as for the server i would absolutely advertise that it isn't stock weapon damage.

also i confirmed my file is working via setting rof to 1 second per shot.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2016, 01:33:01 pm by Death »
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Entropy-Soldier

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Re: Gun damage
« Reply #34 on: August 14, 2016, 01:53:45 pm »

Well, invuln can kick in with as little as 2 players or even one depending on the weapon.  Klobb is particularly bad.  It's usually not something you run into though, since the DPS required to hit it with most guns is pretty high.

Anyway it's pretty weird that you're having this issue with the KF7.  Even without the kickback in the file (defaults to 0) it works as expected for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_fQQajqMgI&feature=youtu.be


I'm modifying these directly on the dev version though, so maybe that might be why it works for me?  Doesn't make sense to me since it's the same system and the only file that controls these values, but that's the only difference I can think of.  There is a formatting error in the file you posted (missing the last bracket) but I expect that's a copy/paste error and not present in the actual file.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2016, 01:57:18 pm by Entropy-Soldier »
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Death

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Re: Gun damage
« Reply #35 on: August 14, 2016, 02:43:38 pm »

Well, invuln can kick in with as little as 2 players or even one depending on the weapon.  Klobb is particularly bad.  It's usually not something you run into though, since the DPS required to hit it with most guns is pretty high.

Anyway it's pretty weird that you're having this issue with the KF7.  Even without the kickback in the file (defaults to 0) it works as expected for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_fQQajqMgI&feature=youtu.be


I'm modifying these directly on the dev version though, so maybe that might be why it works for me?  Doesn't make sense to me since it's the same system and the only file that controls these values, but that's the only difference I can think of.  There is a formatting error in the file you posted (missing the last bracket) but I expect that's a copy/paste error and not present in the actual file.

That video is the file i posted in your version? and yeah i left out sound data and texture as it was irrelevant.

when i open the standard game in my server, with that file vs stock the bullet spread is maybe 10% larger full auto...

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Re: Gun damage
« Reply #36 on: August 14, 2016, 03:08:48 pm »

Yeah, that's your file minus the kickback and with the bracket on the end, on the dev version of the game which has the scripts in plaintext.

Otherwise the dev version is pretty much identical to 5.0 at the moment, with the exception of a few fixes I've been implementing as bugs are found, so it's pretty odd that there would be a discrepancy.  It's probably not caused by the spread system itself, something else has to be interfering.  Really weird though that you can change some values and not others.
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killermonkey

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Re: Gun damage
« Reply #37 on: August 14, 2016, 03:58:24 pm »

This is where the spread cone is calculated, this is a vector that describes the maximum divergence of bullets from perfect shot down the barrel.

https://github.com/goldeneye-source/ges-legacy-code/blob/master/game/ges/shared/ge_weapon.cpp#L655


This gets handed off to the FireBullets function which applies a Gaussian distribution bounded by that maximum cone to figure out where the bullet will actually go:

https://github.com/goldeneye-source/ges-legacy-code/blob/master/game/ges/shared/ge_player_shared.cpp#L177

https://github.com/goldeneye-source/ges-legacy-code/blob/master/game/ges/shared/ge_player_shared.cpp#L564


ES added a gaussian manipulator that widens the one sigma cone based on what you are doing which provides a much better control over shots then the previous implementation.
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Death

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Re: Gun damage
« Reply #38 on: August 15, 2016, 03:09:43 am »

between what both of you guys said and that video is how i would have expected the gun to react to my crazy high numbers.

i reinstalled the server re downloaded the server files, and reset it up from scratch, i made the ar33 shoot at 1 round per second and used that file for the kf7 (minus kick)

and i got the same results as before, the gun is a laser pointer and that file adds no more than ~10% deviation from stock file.

there must have been something patched in your dev version that fixed the gun spray.

are you running the windows server or the linux server? im running the windows server on a spare machine i had kickin around with a i5 2500k

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Re: Gun damage
« Reply #39 on: August 15, 2016, 12:35:13 pm »

Oh, it could be because spread is calculated independently on both server and client using the same random seed, so you'll need to have the same script on the client as you do on the server for the bullet spread to match up on both.  Sorry for not thinking of this sooner, it's actually been a long time since I messed with the weapon scripts and spread code.

But actually this is kind of interesting.  ROF should suffer from the same issues, and bug out pretty hard if there's a difference in the file between client and server.  It might be worth putting ge_bot into console and checking how many shots are actually connecting, because what you see on the client isn't what's happening on the server if the script files are different.  I hate to say it but it's going to make custom weapon servers pretty hard to run.  Damage values and other stuff only relevant to the server can be seamlessly changed, but what you want is more spread and clients expect the server to match their values for that.

It's still possible to distribute new weapon files to all the clients who want to play on such a server, but please only do that with friends or people who know what they're getting into since they'll have issues playing on any other server unless they change their files back.
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killermonkey

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Re: Gun damage
« Reply #40 on: August 15, 2016, 12:50:10 pm »

ROF might be fixed with prediction. Spread isn't predicted so what you see on the client is just a visual representation, the server is actually sending bullets in the proper direction. Bullet decals are clientside only.
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Death

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Re: Gun damage
« Reply #41 on: August 15, 2016, 01:54:16 pm »

Oh, it could be because spread is calculated independently on both server and client using the same random seed, so you'll need to have the same script on the client as you do on the server for the bullet spread to match up on both.  Sorry for not thinking of this sooner, it's actually been a long time since I messed with the weapon scripts and spread code.

But actually this is kind of interesting.  ROF should suffer from the same issues, and bug out pretty hard if there's a difference in the file between client and server.  It might be worth putting ge_bot into console and checking how many shots are actually connecting, because what you see on the client isn't what's happening on the server if the script files are different.  I hate to say it but it's going to make custom weapon servers pretty hard to run.  Damage values and other stuff only relevant to the server can be seamlessly changed, but what you want is more spread and clients expect the server to match their values for that.

It's still possible to distribute new weapon files to all the clients who want to play on such a server, but please only do that with friends or people who know what they're getting into since they'll have issues playing on any other server unless they change their files back.

ROF might be fixed with prediction. Spread isn't predicted so what you see on the client is just a visual representation, the server is actually sending bullets in the proper direction. Bullet decals are clientside only.

well if the client is seeing something slightly different in an area shooter i don't think that will be too worrisome.

but i will take your suggestion and use my modified files on my client and the server the same time to accurately modify the files then run them server side only, the difference honestly shouldn't be too noticeable for someone just playing imo.

some of the popular games out there run completely different seeds for server / client weapon recoil / decals anyway and it seems fine. csgo is the first game that comes to mind that has that.

my purpose is not to disrupt but rather show there is a better way, so i wont make anything public that will disrupt a users experience.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2016, 01:56:19 pm by Death »
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