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Author Topic: 110722: A Moment of Reflection.  (Read 14634 times)

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Rick Astley

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Re: 110722: A Moment of Reflection.
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2011, 03:25:33 pm »

They are obviously already doing that, You think the dev's are just sitting on their ass doing nothing at all?

Ofcourse not
« Last Edit: July 23, 2011, 03:38:34 pm by Rick Astley »
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Entropy-Soldier

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Re: 110722: A Moment of Reflection.
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2011, 05:13:00 pm »

The problem is that you're balancing the voting around someone who will take the time to learn and utilize the system...which is more or less counter intuitive to your stated goal.  Heck, most people don't even vote with the sourcemod voting applet, and that thing comes up on its own and is very direct.  With that in mind it's easy to see that if 2/3rds of the server population need to opt for a vote, you can bet this feature would almost never be seen.


And if you start a vote that offers to give one player a distinct advantage over everyone else, you can bet everyone but him will say no.
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Re: 110722: A Moment of Reflection.
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2011, 05:58:09 pm »

I think bots will help a lot -- it means that even if all the servers are empty you can still play while waiting for real players to show up. Bots also have the potential of creating off-line practice, training courses/matches, and even rudimentary single-player.

Now about voting, I'm not so sure. I would like to see a lot more GE:S separating itself from Valve's system. I know it's close to impossible to do, but maybe allowing people to change settings without the console would help lan parties. Really capture the fun of sitting down with your friends, choosing some fun settings and going at it.

Also, maybe a dedicated Dev to advertising. Valve may not be able to help out, but gaming magazines, gaming websites and forums usually love showing some free publicity to the GE:S cause.

markpeterjameslegg

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Re: 110722: A Moment of Reflection.
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2011, 11:21:53 pm »

I don't bother voting, I'm too busy playing, I let other players do that.
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markpeterjameslegg

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Re: 110722: A Moment of Reflection.
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2011, 11:26:33 pm »

I would like to see a lot more GE:S separating itself from Valve's system. I know it's close to impossible to do, but maybe allowing people to change settings without the console would help lan parties.

If only GE:S could be a stand alone game like Combat Arms, that would be awesome. As for menu's, I would like to see the option of selecting game type and weapons etc, without having to type words into a box, a nice pull down menu perhaps.
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kraid

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Re: 110722: A Moment of Reflection.
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2011, 11:57:10 pm »

We'd need something like a map and gamemode voting screen at the end of each match right before the server is going to change the map.
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coolDisguise

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Re: 110722: A Moment of Reflection.
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2011, 12:09:33 am »

The problem is that you're balancing the voting around someone who will take the time to learn and utilize the system...which is more or less counter intuitive to your stated goal.  Heck, most people don't even vote with the sourcemod voting applet, and that thing comes up on its own and is very direct.  With that in mind it's easy to see that if 2/3rds of the server population need to opt for a vote, you can bet this feature would almost never be seen.

Yeah, that's the thing. VC always comes up with interesting ideas, but they often if not always require people to read up and think - and that's where they fail. Like many people don't get LALD even with the integrated gameplay help. They go like "Why don't I get points and that guy I just shot respawns? And when I'm killed I can't spawn? BS! *ragequit*".

And if you start a vote that offers to give one player a distinct advantage over everyone else, you can bet everyone but him will say no.

That's why I already proposed - in another thread though - that handicapping should be the other way around. Players can choose to handicap themselves having -10 armor, -10 health or whatever. You could encourage this by giving more points to players playing with a handicap. So good player will go for the handicap (but on a level they feel comfortable with) while bad players won't feel like their hands are being held. Though I like VC's idea that the server offers handicaps to weaker players - and automatically disables the handicap once they're improving.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2011, 12:16:37 am by coolDisguise »
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killermonkey

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Re: 110722: A Moment of Reflection.
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2011, 03:14:32 am »

Now about voting, I'm not so sure. I would like to see a lot more GE:S separating itself from Valve's system. I know it's close to impossible to do, but maybe allowing people to change settings without the console would help lan parties. Really capture the fun of sitting down with your friends, choosing some fun settings and going at it.

Great idea! (if sv_lan == 1 && ge_lanvote == 1 present lan options screen before starting the match (match time, round time, scenario, weaponset, etc.))


Listen, I'll be square with everyone, we plan on having a voting panel come up at the end of each match for the NEXT map. This would replace all SM plugins and be very interactive and in your face. Voting would be for Gameplay Scenario and Map.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2011, 03:17:39 am by killermonkey »
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Kinky

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Re: 110722: A Moment of Reflection.
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2011, 03:37:51 am »

And weapon set i hope.
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Re: 110722: A Moment of Reflection.
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2011, 03:51:59 am »

And weapon set i hope.

Only if the weapon set is not randomized (ie random_loadout)
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Re: 110722: A Moment of Reflection.
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2011, 05:53:18 am »

I don't bother voting, I'm too busy playing, I let other players do that.
Ah, but if you aren't paying attention to what you are playing, then you are just participating.  You're also assuming that your vote doesn't matter or is marginalized, which is a 20-randoms server thought, not a 4-friends server thought.

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Players can choose to handicap themselves having -10 armor, -10 health or whatever.
That's no good.  Be it automatic, if you nerf a good player, you move the dominant strategy to be to play as good as possible without tripping the penalty, and be it elective, no one will elect except for a few people who are the "no damage speed run" type of player.  For most, it would just mean they get ganked by Klobb spam.  However, fortifying a bad player does not affect the normal or good players much, since both reduced damage on the noob or boosting the damage they inflict is countered by their inherent badness of play, thus the handicap effect is felt only when they get a little better, making those boosted shots count or successfully evading attacks.  Training wheels for neophytes = good; boat anchors for regulars = bad.
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Re: 110722: A Moment of Reflection.
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2011, 06:46:58 am »

I think we need to really classify what we're talking about: making GE:S online and offline play different.

LAN play will be more like sitting down with your friends and playing N64 -- choosing settings, maps, handicaps, etc. Online play will be more like other PC FPS with servers controlling most of the experience. Really having two branches of the experience is an interesting idea, one for LAN parties (and 4-person servers I would imagine) and one for online servers.

I was playing around with an idea for handicaps before, but I could never make it really fair. Maybe just allowing people to set up handicaps in LAN and 4-person servers would be best?

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Re: 110722: A Moment of Reflection.
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2011, 09:26:54 am »

What I'm talking about is making LAN our target audience and letting Online be an out-growth of that.

Just being an online DM mod brings nothing to the market and we cannot compete with established jump-in-have-fun-jump-out games.  But, almost no games specifically target LANs as a mission.  That's where I think we need to be.  We need to be the go-to game when you have a bunch of people LANing and looking for something everyone can jump into.  One thing that the Dev crew cannot do is be the ambassador who speaks up and says "hey, we all got Source on these computers, let's do Goldeneye," but we have lots of people who claim to want to spread the word on GES.  I've tried, but online it always falls flat because once they get all the shit installed, I have almost nothing to offer them but an LTK server (oh this game is just one hit kills) or one of the elaborate scenarios with die-hards who make it feel like one-sided LTK to the newbie.  Online-GES doesn't offer what the first-timer needs.

Automatic handicapping done right can ensure that gameplay is, and stays, balanced.  Leaving it to the players to choose is just going to lead to confusion (who knows what +2 means?  I do, if you know your maths you might, but most just know it's more than +1 and less than +3) and arbitrary effectiveness.
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Re: 110722: A Moment of Reflection.
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2011, 07:03:31 pm »

What I'm talking about is making LAN our target audience and letting Online be an out-growth of that.

well, i wasn't sure at first, but this pretty much confirms that this whole topic was just VC trolling us.
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Re: 110722: A Moment of Reflection.
« Reply #29 on: July 24, 2011, 11:29:58 pm »

I actually dig the idea of a slightly more communal lan experience. I ignored the rest of his post.
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