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Author Topic: Level Designer: Classics  (Read 11914 times)

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Crasing

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Level Designer: Classics
« on: August 01, 2009, 08:20:40 pm »

Hey guys, first and foremost, amazing mod. I love the spiritual successor that you guys are creating to one of the greatest games of all time.

I would just like to contribute to the project if you guys are interested.

I'm not hugely familiar with hammer but I am with 3ds/n64 and its architecture. I have rebuilt the original maps in 3ds using the same vertex info and original textures from Goldeneye. I realize that it is not the goal of the team to simply copy goldeneye. However, I noticed the classic "complex" and thought perhaps I could be of assistance on the later classics.

If I can be of any assistance, or you would like more just let me know.



Here is a quick render of The Cradle:

« Last Edit: August 08, 2009, 03:24:27 am by Jeron [SharpSh00tah] »
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Zippy

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Re: Level Designer: Classics
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2009, 10:13:09 pm »

I posted a thread on the same subject. Maybe one day, we can join forces, and ride my unicorn into the mists of Avalon.
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Re: Level Designer: Classics
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2009, 01:43:52 am »

Classics are under my domain.  And now that we have playtesting going on again, I'll be getting back to work on them soon.  If you want to work on revised maps, post your dossier.  There are plenty of them to do.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2009, 01:46:10 am by Viashino Cutthroat »
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Crasing

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Re: Level Designer: Classics
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2009, 04:02:12 am »

Great. I started this project quite some time ago, I originally ported a few over to simple UT2004 Maps, Im in the process of bringing a couple to UT3. Long story short, I have all maps both single/multi or can rebuild them fairly quickly. If there is a particular level you would like the mesh for, just to get an idea of what I have done. Let me know.

Here some images of the Dam:



edit: ignore the floating "birds,"  a remnant of previous work.


Edit #2: After reading your previous message it seems like you are saying that you've got the classics locked down. I want to make it clear I wasn't looking to do anything other than provide the team with the static meshes for all of the original levels. Also as I said before I have all single player levels if there is any interest in that aspect.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2009, 09:45:10 am by Crasing »
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Josh [SLX]

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Re: Level Designer: Classics
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2009, 11:18:41 am »

These would be great if they were using GE:S textures, as they could then be used for some nifty animated sequences instead of using the engine itself for single player cutscenes, but its just brainstorming. You say you modeled these from scratch? not bad.
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Jonathon [SSL]

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Re: Level Designer: Classics
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2009, 11:29:55 am »

You didn't just export the GE64 level geometry to an OBJ correct? Also, we can't use static meshes in Hammer the way they can be used in UT, if any faces are deleted or are concave, the .vmf exporter cannot properly generate the file.
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Crasing

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Re: Level Designer: Classics
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2009, 05:43:20 pm »

Yes and no, the vertex information is dumped from the rom itself (not an emu). I realigned all the faces to make one solid closed mesh in 3ds. Im not sure exactly if this is the correct method for hammer.
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Re: Level Designer: Classics
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2009, 12:48:25 am »

This way would work for Games like Halo, which are using a §D App. for level editing.
Hammer is as different as it can get from this method.

In hammer you build your maps out of basic geomety brushes like Cubes.
The map area itself has to be sealed off completly from the "void" arround it.
The bsp compiling will delete every face which cannot be seen by a entity in the map and create the final polygon struckture.

So in theory your map could work under these conditions:
1. there cannot be any 2D elements, no single polygons, no planes, everything has to consist of solid geometry.
2. There cannot be any invalid struckture like concave faces
3. everything has to be aligned to the grid.
4. i'm sure there are a few more conditions,
- maybe material asignment
- smoothing groops, i guess the same rules as for Collision meshes

As you might have noticed now, it's not exactly easy to create a map for Source outside of hammer.
Good luck if you wanna try it, but i think the best decission would be, to build your map in hammer, using the 3D data you got as reference.

You could try to build a very basic version of the map in your 3D app. and export it to VMF.
Use the file in Hammer for size reference and do all the detail work there.

TBH, Dam isn't exactly the easiest map to start with. It has many things in it which Hammer doesn't like very much.

Another way might be to compile the model as a prop enable the "show models in 2D" button in hammer, so the wireframe of the model will be visible in the 2 viewports of hammer and you got some guidelines to build your model from.
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[GE:S Com] DF Ank1

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Re: Level Designer: Classics
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2009, 04:10:59 am »

How i said. I have all textures and obj. files of the classic levels. You can export them from the GoldenEye Setup editor, where you can download at www.goldeneyevault.com

CHECK IT
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Re: Level Designer: Classics
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2009, 04:14:00 am »

Kraid just explained in the above post why it's not possible to use the .OBJ files in Hammer, unless you compiled them as a model and then used the reference mesh in Hammer as a guideline.
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[GE:S Com] DF Ank1

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Re: Level Designer: Classics
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2009, 04:20:46 am »

Well i use DeleD Lite for making such think, then i export them to an obj and then simply convert them to an BSP. File. You can choose such thinks in Crafty, if you want a CS:S map or an HL Map, or other maps....

Well i don´t know nothing about that, so i think spending my time not in hear. I am spending my time in making the Goldfinger 64 game....
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kraid

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Re: Level Designer: Classics
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2009, 09:46:24 am »

So you're creating the .bsp files directly from the .obj?
Is it able to create vis leafs and entities, too?

In that case you would need to throw in all the entities needed.
Such as player/weapon/ammo spawns, lightning, ambient sound  & music, not to mention brush based entities like destroyable glass windows, moving doors etc.

But you could also just build the .bsp and decompile it again so it would be hammer .vmf format.
Not sure if this will work, coz your model is based on a .obj using vertex data differing from the hammer units grid.
Maybe the decompiler can handle this and will align the vertex to the nearest world unit, or it might fail like it does a lot with maps using many displacement surfaces.

Again, if you ever think about making a map for GES, please build it yourself in hammer using this data just as a reference.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2009, 09:49:39 am by kraid »
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Jonathon [SSL]

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Re: Level Designer: Classics
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2009, 10:02:10 am »

I don't think there are any programs that can compile Source-compatible BSPs other than Hammer.

As I've said in about 4 posts at least today, I'll put it in italics this time to see if anyone notices:

You can't use dumped .obj data from GE64 to recompile the map in Source. The polygons would all have to be convex blocks with no faces missing, and all of the GE64 maps are built out of single-sided flat polygons, which can't be used in Source. In addition, using data dumped directly from the GE64 cartridge would be a mega copyright infringement and illegal for us to do. Instead, we have Viashino Cutthroat who is getting all the geometry data by measuring each wall and floor manually, then using some kind of crazy formulas to convert GE64 units to Hammer units, then creating the maps from scratch in Hammer, resulting in near-exact replicas of our own creation.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2009, 10:05:54 am by The SSL »
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kraid

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Re: Level Designer: Classics
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2009, 01:44:47 am »

Have you ever tried to create vmf's using XSI or exporting it using crafty?
As for me, there's simply nothing showing up in hammer.
I tried it the same way as i would create geometrie in Hammer, simple cube brushes arranged to rooms.

However i managed to get something shown up this way:
exporting .obj to Milkshape > creating Q3 radiant .map > converting to .vmf using crafty.

Backfaces are calculated by the exporter, but every plane consists of triangles, not quads like they're used in hammer.
So it would be wise to recreate the whole thing with hammer brushes using this model as guidelines (you can put it into a vis-groop to have it the same linecolor and toggle it on and off to see if it fits).
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[GE:S Com] DF Ank1

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Re: Level Designer: Classics
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2009, 02:57:24 am »

Mhm well i don´t create levels with Hammer. I use DeleD Lite.
So if someone wan´t to create Classic levels, send me an PM.


I have all textures from GoldenEye
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kraid

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Re: Level Designer: Classics
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2009, 04:05:11 am »

So? Learn to build maps with hammer, it's really not that hard to learn the basics.
But for the textures, are you seriouse about using these extreme low-res textures in a source game?

Create your own or use existing textures, there's no need for having it look exactly as blury as the N64 version. Try to keep the look but have it hi-res, like rare does with the XBLA port of PD or the cancled Goldeneye remake.
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Re: Level Designer: Classics
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2009, 07:42:42 am »

Mhm yes GoldenEye have only 64x64, 32x32, 64x32 and 32x32 bitmaps. Very low-res. Have to make higher one... Mhm....

Well the only problem what i have with Hammer is to set all those settings.
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Re: Level Designer: Classics
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2009, 01:57:35 am »

Which settings? The mod setup?

http://forums.goldeneyesource.net/index.php/topic,2954.0.html

Or anything else?
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Re: Level Designer: Classics
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2009, 03:42:11 am »

I mean the settings in "Configure Hammer"

http://forums.goldeneyesource.net/index.php/topic,2954.0.html , the reply form major. He post a picure. I mean those settings.

And then the next problem i think is to clip the level.
If you don´t know what you mean with clip : A Clip file is a file, where the player can walk. So i have to clip ground, stairs, air that player can walk. or does the Hammer Editor make this automaticly ?
« Last Edit: September 09, 2009, 03:44:34 am by [GE:S Com] DF Ank1 »
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kraid

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Re: Level Designer: Classics
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2009, 04:36:30 am »

Yea, Hammer will build the colision data from the Geometry used to build the level.
There are things like Playerclip (regular Brush with the Playerclip texture applied) and other Tool textures too, but they are for additional things like invisible Walls e.g. to prevent the player from beeing caught on tiny poly edges.

It will even run a visibility calculation during compiling, to check which parts of the map will be visible for the player from which point of the map.
Ofc. this often needs some optimizing in certain areas of a map. But that's more advanced stuff you should take a look at later.
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Re: Level Designer: Classics
« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2009, 07:08:30 am »

So? Learn to build maps with hammer, it's really not that hard to learn the basics.
But for the textures, are you seriouse about using these extreme low-res textures in a source game?

Ok now i am going to learn mapping with Hammer, how you saw in some threads.
It is not so, that i have nearly no experience, it´s Hammer. I have to learn with it. I don´t know how excatly the editor works.
I would better create Levels with DeleD, but how you said : Hammer have more tools and compatibility.

My first target/goal is to create 1 room ( cube ) , and that i can play it in GE:S. I don´t want more, i don´t wory about the rest it´s only the way from making a room to play the room in GE:S

If this happend, i will start with classic maps.
I do not make myself concerns around the textures. I have all of them. Yes it´s a low resolution, but in emergency there is ever the way to use other textures or create own ones.
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