GoldenEye: Source Forums

Debriefing => General Goldeneye => Topic started by: CptLima on November 15, 2018, 04:26:09 pm

Title: Clickbait article on GoldenEye "Secrets"
Post by: CptLima on November 15, 2018, 04:26:09 pm
Just saw this article...

It's pretty badly written, and most of the "hidden secrets" aren't secrets or aren't even things in the game... but that aside, going through most of the screenshots on the page, they're actually screenshots not of GE64 but of older versions of GE:Source (and mostly uncredited... one is even a screenshot of one of Graslu's YouTube videos of a mod level).

Of course, they never mention GE:Source anywhere in the clickbait monetized article, even though it has a bunch of GE:S photos in it... would have been nice if one of the 25 "hidden things" was that there's a really fun fan-made mod that's still going strong today, especially if they're going to show a bunch of photos of it!
Title: Re: Clickbait article on GoldenEye "Secrets"
Post by: JamieF4178 on November 15, 2018, 04:36:30 pm
They also used images from Goldeneye 25! On top of getting basic facts wrong. Like saying frigate wasn't in the film. It was. Bond saw Xenia steal the emp proof helicopter! He just didn't shoot a bazillian guys and free a bunch of hostages while doing it.  ::)
Title: Re: Clickbait article on GoldenEye "Secrets"
Post by: kraid on November 15, 2018, 08:14:03 pm
Director: Hey Joe?
J: Yea?
D: You remember that old N64 Game Goldeneye?
J: Yea.
D: Make an Article about it in your lunchbreak!
J: m'Kay.
J: Where do i get Pics for it?
D: Google "Goldeneye" Dumbass!
Title: Re: Clickbait article on GoldenEye "Secrets"
Post by: L. Spiro on November 16, 2018, 10:23:34 pm
I find it disgusting to harp so badly on what was clearly well-intended, and he obviously knew when he was using screenshots from not the Nintendo 64 version.
I didn't know the fall was in every following game (have not played many of them), nor about the briefcase, etc.  Red shirts is actually a reference to Star Trek, but I never noticed it in the game.  I didn't know "GoldenEye" was a British code word.

I acknowledge that he got some things wrong, but I am not going to join some bandwagon meant to mercilessly rip his soul apart for no reason.
If you just reached out and cordially contacted him he would make changes.  How is what you are doing here better than doing that?

L. Spiro
Title: Re: Clickbait article on GoldenEye "Secrets"
Post by: JamieF4178 on November 16, 2018, 11:08:13 pm
Eh... Don't you think you're being a tad bit dramatic? We're not "joining some bandwagon meant to mercilessly rip his soul apart for no reason." It was a crap article, so people called it a crap article. Nuff said.
Title: Re: Clickbait article on GoldenEye "Secrets"
Post by: L. Spiro on November 17, 2018, 01:04:50 am
Right, because "Joe write a story on your lunch break" wasn't harshly condescending at all.  It is not acceptable unless the author has shown ill-willed intent.  This looks like a guy who loves the same game we all do, was happy to share, and missed the mark on some things.

If you believe you have legitimate grievances (for example getting credited for images), contact the author, and then snag on him if he fails to provide an update.
Instead, you would rather leave the false items out there for others to read and believe in favor of just ragging on him here?  You know you have the ability to get the article updated and you are intentionally ignoring it, even though it would benefit others too, so I have to ask again how exactly is what is happening here more productive than just contacting him?
He'll also be more careful in the future, and you will have solved future problems too.

There's nothing dramatic about choosing a scenario in which all people win vs. one in which literally no one wins.

L. Spiro
Title: Re: Clickbait article on GoldenEye "Secrets"
Post by: CptLima on November 18, 2018, 08:51:05 am
Because I'm an actual journalist, and that article is complete garbage, outright steals people's content without credit, has blatantly false information, and deserves to be called out for all of those things.

And that "red shirt" reference has never to my knowledge even been confirmed by any developer of the game - it's actually stolen from a previous click-bait article on another website from 3 years ago! ( The truth is that there were several civilian characters that were supposed to be in Streets, but the game can only load so many different models, so they stuck with one - which happened to be wearing a red shirt - and no one associated with the game has ever said, to my knowledge, has anything to do with Star Trek. It was just made up by that original clickbait article, and regurgitated here. So the thing you "learned" about the game is just a lie.

It's not defensible at all, nor is it outrageous to point out how bad it is, since literally the whole point of the article is to make that website money on thrown-together "content" stolen from other people.

And by the way - I did post on the article and let them know these things before I posted here. My comment was DELETED and they neither corrected the false information nor gave credit to any of the stolen content that shows a completely different game than the one the article is about.

Seriously, how could you even defend this trash? Do you understand how those clickbait websites operate at all? They don't care about accuracy, getting things right, or giving credit - they just churn out hundreds of articles to get clicks. Contacting them does nothing.

And if all of that doesn't convince you... here's an almost copy-pasted article from the same website by a different "author" from 1 year ago in which they reuse much of the same false information, including the "Red Shirt" reference you pointed out: - and even that article has GE:S content they just took off of Google.
Title: Re: Clickbait article on GoldenEye "Secrets"
Post by: L. Spiro on November 18, 2018, 04:14:52 pm
I noticed your comment gone and they have also not responded to my e-mail, but I am across the world nearly dying after complications from surgery (just got back from the ER and more tubes down my throat) and it was a weekend so I decided to wait at least a few days.

Needless to say I am not in the best of moods.

Let me be clear on one thing: "Most of it is not even in the game!" is an invalid criticism; I happen to enjoy all of this kind of thing, regardless of whether or not it is directly in the game.  That's enough of that criticism.

I agree that the link to the red shirts and the victim trope spawned by Star Trek is weak, and I believe it is only a coincidence.  I might just ask one of the developers.

And you are providing evidence that they really do not care.  Of course I know how these work; I am just not overly familiar with this specific site.
But the evidence you are posting is extremely damning and certainly makes it feel as if they are "just another one of those kinds."

I can assure you I am no longer defending them.  As I see it now, they only have one last chance to save themselves (and they are free to consider this an ultimatum): Reply to my e-mail and make the changes, or I get the developers of GoldenEye 007 involved and it will be taken down.  I am pretty sure Graeme Norgate isn't going to be happy seeing that only Grant Kirkhope was credited, even after Graeme did most of the work and they wrote an equal number of bad-ass songs (with the #1 best (Multiplayer Theme #1) being done by Graeme).

I never take sides; I follow evidence, and your evidence is quite damning for them.  I am only giving them one last chance to respond to be as fair as possible.

L. Spiro

I have e-mailed some of the composers and re-issued an e-mail to TheGamer explaining that they have a limited time to correct things peacefully.
Title: Re: Clickbait article on GoldenEye "Secrets"
Post by: CptLima on November 18, 2018, 05:19:40 pm
To be honest, I really don't care about it that much... these sorts of articles get made about everything that ever existed all the time... I just saw it the other day and noticed all the GE:S photos they included and pointed it out in the original post cause it was interesting.
Title: Re: Clickbait article on GoldenEye "Secrets"
Post by: L. Spiro on November 18, 2018, 09:26:49 pm
After noticing my "power" drop from 40 to 22, I no longer care about this issue.
I am now focused entirely on surviving my trip back to America, which strongly requires me to avoid any shock, adrenaline rushes, etc.
(For context I posted in another thread: I am barely surviving complications following a surgery, and any type of minor shock or surprise undoes some of my progress to recovery.  If I can't reach a certain level of stability within a few days I will have to cancel my flight back because as of now I can't survive on a plane, and I am far from getting there.)

I was originally a neutral party ready to join your side, trying to figure out if it was appropriate for me to unleash on that site, so it was a surprise to notice my drop, and it caused too much of a surprise.  I can only barely breathe so I had to lay down.

The degree of drop indicates that not only am I not on their side, apparently I am not on your side either (I thought I was?), and that is also causing some stress to consume more oxygen than I am able to provide.

I sincerely apologize to everyone.  :)
Good luck with everything!  ;D

L. Spiro
Title: Re: Clickbait article on GoldenEye "Secrets"
Post by: CptLima on November 21, 2018, 07:53:40 am
I don't think you should take forum posts, or even the original click-bait article subject matter I posted about, so seriously; neither are in any way something to be stressed about... best of luck.
Title: Re: Clickbait article on GoldenEye "Secrets"
Post by: L. Spiro on November 21, 2018, 04:21:36 pm
Plane leaves today, and I have recovered enough that with the help of sedatives to keep my oxygen consumption low I should be fine.
For my own health reasons I had to drop the issue, but there still was a negative result for them.

They've lost access to interviews with the staff from Rare involved in this game and dispute (you can tell how hard I am trying not to drop names) and myself.
They/we won't raise a further ruckus, but that article has cost them valuable access inside the industry, and more of my coworkers from Square Enix, friends from Rare, etc., have blacklisted them, and more may do so soon.

And perhaps more importantly for J. McCollam:
Good job destroying any relationship you may have had with the developers of your childhood game.

When I met the composers of GoldenEye 007, even though my status in the industry is high I am not ashamed to admit that I was giddy like a schoolgirl.  As coworkers, our relationships were professional at first but eventually we became drinking buddies etc., and to me that was fuckballs amazing.  Over 20 years ago this game changed my life, made me dream of working at Rare, etc., and then there I was having drinks with those people who made that game, respected as a colleague and equal for my work on other AAA games.

Now imagine waiting 20 years to meet them, only to have them tell you to piss off.
"Clickbait garbage" literally is the wording one of them used to describe that article.
Ouch that has to sting.  I don't know about you but that would destroy me.

Good job J. McCollam.  You got one of the developers on GoldenEye 007 to call your article "clickbait garbage" and alienated the rest of them from you for life, with collateral damage in other major companies.

I tried hard to be fair.  It's unfortunate that the arms I were holding wide open to embrace him had to become pincers that ended up slicing him in half.

L. Spiro
Title: Re: Clickbait article on GoldenEye "Secrets"
Post by: CptLima on November 22, 2018, 12:13:10 pm
That's pretty intense...

I hope all goes well with your health and recovery.