GoldenEye: Source Forums
Debriefing => Impressions & Feedback => Topic started by: markpeterjameslegg on July 31, 2011, 12:32:06 pm
-
I have a suggestion, I was thinking that the aim feature could make the weapons more accurate than it currently does, I'm thinking it could balance out gameplay a bit more for noobs and maybe lessen the amount of bitchin about the mechanics, there's also the added advantage of keeping the players. I think most of the hardcore players don't bother with it anyway because they don't need it, but noobs would benefit immensely from a little more accuracy in aiming. I did some testing a little while back shooting a wall from distance with a few guns, one with aim and one without and sometimes you can't even tell the difference in the spread. What do you guys think?
-
Speaking personally as a player with lag concern in most server conditions I would use aimmode if it gave -say- 10% better accuracy cone than it does now.
However, VC handles these matters and already believes the accuracy bonus is optimally balanced. At least last I got up to speed on his posts and decisions that was the case. He has tweaked before when being inspired and/or convinced an opportunity for improvement. So it's not like this suggestion couldn't be discussed and options a chance ;)
-
If you like accuracy, use an accurate weapon and use aimmode and you get near-perfect accuracy.
The point in having 27 different weapons is that some can be innacurate and require you to get closer to your target to make accurate shots.
-
Sure, but I never really notice any difference except the fact it gives me a clearer view of where I'm aiming, after a while I tend to just make do without as it can leave you a sitting duck, and I'm not getting anymore kills with it.
-
Remember our accuracy is based on probability of hitting the center. The accuracy cones don't really mean much, but the majority of the shots will hit closer to the center when aimed in so you are MORE LIKELY to hit where you are aiming.
Firing at a fast rate with an automatic weapon increases the cone by 10-15% even when aimed in.
-
How come your name is now in the red KM, still angry from Flash2011's posts?
-
He's at defcon 1.
-
I have a suggestion, I was thinking that the aim feature could make the weapons more accurate than it currently does, I'm thinking it could balance out gameplay a bit more for noobs and maybe lessen the amount of bitchin about the mechanics, there's also the added advantage of keeping the players. I think most of the hardcore players don't bother with it anyway because they don't need it, but noobs would benefit immensely from a little more accuracy in aiming. I did some testing a little while back shooting a wall from distance with a few guns, one with aim and one without and sometimes you can't even tell the difference in the spread. What do you guys think?
You make a good point, i've said this exact same thing.
-
I am now an official Managing Director of the mod, although i've been wearing that hat internally for a while now.
http://forums.goldeneyesource.net/index.php?action=staff
-
hooray.
I can still bug you on steam right?
-
For ever minute you bug me on steam, v4.2 gets delayed by 1 month.
-
For ever minute you bug me on steam, v4.2 gets delayed by 1 month.
I don't like what I just read.
-
For ever minute you bug me on steam, v4.2 gets delayed by 1 month.
+1
-
You have four factors in the accuracy formula that affect the grouping.
1) Base accuracy. How good the gun is, naturally.
2) Un-sighted penalty. If unsighted, your spread is greater. Aside: This was originally a substitute for breathing effect, but remains useful.
3) Breathing effect. If you don't adjust for it, it will move the center of your spread while you fire it.
4) Recoil. If you hold the trigger, this will well-exceed any of the three above.
-
Aimmode has different effects on different weapons. For the D5K it does almost nothing, but the shotguns gain nearly a 100% accuracy bonus from it.
This actually helps pro players a lot more than new ones because of how exploitable and unapparent it is. (aimmode in midair and all that)
-
Cool, cheers for the info. And Flash2011, don't ruin it for everyone else OK.
-
aimmode in midair
...which is an oversight that needs to be resolved.
-
I can't stand the hoppers, they get on my tits. Besides, it looks ruddy ridiculous when everybody's jumping up and down, it looks more like a piss take than a remake.
-
Yeah, jumping/hopping sure do look odd in GES. But its one of those things that add so many new elements to gameplay(specially maps) that it sort of has to be there. But servers can turn it off, and we try to design maps where they work when jumping is turned off.
Bunny hopping is drastically lowered in GE:S compared to other games, since we have the jump timer. Buttill a more effective solution is drawn up, it will do for now.
But I agree, I hate jumpers. VC, and KM will hopefully soon fix that little issue.
-
E-S will be upset, not that I care
-
Why is there jumping at all? I like it and all, but what is the reason for it? There's really not many things to jump over.
-
Because it just is.. But we did make it a server option. On the other hand we also designed the levels to be accessible the same way if jump is off.
-
I personally like to be able to jump over rails and stuff. I don't know if it would make a difference, but you could have it off as a default. Other than that, I'm not sure what you can do besides disable it.
-
Why is there jumping at all? I like it and all, but what is the reason for it? There's really not many things to jump over.
Jumping is simply one harmless (without over the top exploiting players who could be more honorable...) modernizing aspect we decided to keep that comes standard when making a mod on source. It's purpose would be best described as "it's natural and expected to jump these days in games" and is only implemented to be used on the modern version of the maps as they are often built with railings/ledges to jump over for short cuts.
For instance in control you'll notice there are many railings which without jump you would have to walk along a catwalk and down a ramp inside the railing - a long way basically, and it'd feel so restrictive..
-
We could do something silly like have a "active jump trigger" so if you walk into that area jump is enabled. So that could be placed near railings or things you might want to player to jump on.
But its silly and would confuse people, we would have to add one of those trigger icons for stupid games where you can take cover.
-
Why are their some walkways you can't walk off and some you can? In complex you can run off the ramps, but you can walk off the catwalks to your death.
-
I think you should be able to walk off edges as well, It seems to be the classic maps that prevents you, can be frustrating sometimes.
-
Yeah classic maps don't allow you to walk off edges. A sort of no jump classic feel. Makes you plan your route like the original GE007.
-
Why are their some walkways you can't walk off and some you can? In complex you can run off the ramps, but you can walk off the catwalks to your death.
Classic maps?
-
Don't remind me.
/me still hasn't made that promised Hammer-compatible tool.
/me still can't get over perfectionism enough to finish software projects.
/me still full of shit when it come to converting great ideas into practical products.
-
For ever minute you bug me on steam, v4.2 gets delayed by 1 month.
LOL
You just lost a customer. Thank you everyone, I had a great time in here. I wish you all best of luck.
Goodbye
You think i left? Hell no, i love you all and GES!
-
"The point in having 27 different weapons is that some can be innacurate and require you to get closer to your target to make accurate shots."
You mean like shotguns? ::)
The inconsistency of your sentence is astonishing.
I have seriously never seen that in any game except GES. Especially an online FPS PC game.
Where did you get that?!
I wonder why the klobb doesn't deal no damages at all then.?
And there should be the "Cerebral Bore" from Turok!
If to add more guns is to increase the crappiness of gameplay then sure, it works pretty well.
Let's add the SCAR, the MP44, tank bullets, artillery...
Why more guns?! Why not one shotgun, one pistol, one sniper, one rifle, etc.?!
Basically, the weapon system in goldeneye 64 was the more you progress in the missions (I'm not giving a lecture here, just my point of view - I know it doesn't feel like it but that's just my english :D), the more you progress in the missions, (god, that smiley has a retarded smile!), the more you progress in the missions, the better guns you picked off the hands of your ennemies.
What does it add except a little variety to the missions?!
In multiplayer, it was more or less the same but you had the luxury to avoid your opponents and get the better guns of the game to face them at some point. Or at least a decent gun.
The problem here is (so obivous, first point) that the gap between each weapon is increased in GES while it should be, in my opinion, the opposite (just compare the KF7, watch videos if needed).
And that value is even more increased by the number of players (over 12 is unplayable).
Hopefully, there is teams.
So, most of the time, you're facing players that have either the body armor or not, and have a way better gun than you or simply the worst gun of the game like the klobb.
It's... never fair!
Even when you hold shift it does nothing properly. You need to cross fingers with your third hand.
When you aim with the pp7 silenced, for instance, it doesn't shot in the middle.
I miss headshots all the time with that gun while aiming the head with an unwavering precision, even when my ennemy is at middle distance.
I don't even get the point of being more accurate when you aim. In the original game, it allowed you to aim the head because otherwise it would just autoaim the body.
It was surely a great idea on paper, like not allowing players to jump so they stop the (not so much) trick of jumping-aiming-shooting with the shotgun.
Anyway, apparently, the accuracy of weapons is not as an interesting topic as jumping.
-
Best not to take what I said too far out of context. :P
In the context of this thread about 'accuracy' then mechanically speaking in any game there is no point in having a large variety of weapons if they are all statistically the same.
In GoldenEye like most games there are 3 values that make a weapon mechanically distinct from others (not visually) they are Damage, Spread and Rate of Fire. All of the bullet weapons in GoldenEye are different combinations of the three. But we are only talking about accuracy.
As for the aim mode, it does increase accuracy, it just varies on certain weapons. With the PP7s it doesn't make much difference because they are so accurate anyway, with other weapons like the Phantom it can make a huge difference.
And as for the reason behind why we have the aim mode - it's simply an intelligent gameplay mechanic, you trade off movement speed for accuracy, limiting your ability to dodge and flank but maximizing your ability to place shots accurately. It's mechanically no different from 'aiming down the sight' in other FPS games, the only difference being we use a crosshair rather than shoving a weapon model into your face.
-
Well actually, all weapons differences would remain intact, as accuracy would be slightly increased the same amount for all, but all points taken.
-
It was surely a great idea on paper, like not allowing players to jump so they stop the (not so much) trick of jumping-aiming-shooting with the shotgun.
Anyway, apparently, the accuracy of weapons is not as an interesting topic as jumping.
This is the only thing I agree with you on.
It is being looked into, we will have an anti-jump-aim mechanic in v4.2 to further restrict that bad behavior.