GoldenEye: Source Forums
Debriefing => Impressions & Feedback => Topic started by: Flash2011 on July 28, 2011, 08:20:35 pm
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Ok, I haven't posted in a few days because I wanted to get a better feel of the Goldeneye:Source gameplay.
After learning about the invulnerability mechanic, which is after every time you get hit you are invulnerable from damage for about half a second, I decided to test out the game again.
One of my original gripes was about how I thought the aiming felt really outdated and the aiming was inaccurate, I figured It may have been that I was unloading clips on people and not killing them because of the invuln.
After discussing it with other players and testing it out more I can say this: The invuln mechanic is bad, it makes it very difficult to get kills and doesn't promote skill. You could say that "Take your shots carefully, they'll be more rewarding" but the truth is that if you're using an automatic gun you're not going to try and take your shots. Whats the point in using an SMG if you have place your shots like a sniper rifle?
The guns I found to be the most enjoyable are the pistols and the rifles with SMG's being pretty bad. The Magnum is cool cause you can 1 shot head shots and because the time it takes to shoot again is about half a second you never encounter the invuln.
It is odd to see that if you use an SMG on someone you aren't dropping them very fast. The ZMG is an example of this. It's a cool gun, I like how fast it shoots, but the unfortunate side affect of this is that it's HIGHLY inaccurate and since the Rate of Fire is so fast only a few of your shots register.
The guy with the ZMG should win more duels than he guy with the PP7 because he has more bullets and a higher RoF.
A few argument i've heard to this removal of invuln were "People die to fast" and "GE:64 used it".
People die to fast: So what? It makes it more skill based because the less skill based player won't be able to take on the skilled player. CounterStrike does this and it's arguably the most popular FPS of all time.
GE:64 used it: Times have changed, theres reasons for why cars aren't made with the way they use to be, theres reasons why clothes don't look the same year after year, theres a reason why games today aren't exactly like the games of yesteryear. Just because GE64 used it doesn't mean it's a phenomenal mechanic, it means it was phenomenal mechanic in 1997.
You developers are a smart group and if your concern is that people are dying too fast i'm sure you guys can figure out a way around it. Maybe start everyone off with body armor?
On a side note, are we to expect any MORE game modes? As it appears it seems like most of the game modes are just the standard GE:64 game modes.
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After discussing it with other players and testing it out more I can say this: The invuln mechanic is bad, it makes it very difficult to get kills and doesn't promote skill. You could say that "Take your shots carefully, they'll be more rewarding" but the truth is that if you're using an automatic gun you're not going to try and take your shots. Whats the point in using an SMG if you have place your shots like a sniper rifle?
Use Burst-Fire, Maybe? That's what I always do and it works like a charm.
On a side note, are we to expect any MORE game modes? As it appears it seems like most of the game modes are just the standard GE:64 game modes.
Yes, In fact there is one in the works that might interest you, Here's the thread. http://forums.goldeneyesource.net/index.php/topic,6270.0.html
And there are several other third-party gamemodes, But they are not available on every server. I believe TG's server has them all, And if you wish to try them out, There's a voting option on the server for gamemodes.
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Honestly, i think the invulnerability period is one of the things that sets GE64 apart from other shooters. Getting kills doesn't take less skill, or more skill, it just allows for a different kind of strategy.
Rapid fire guns still have their place, but will no doubt loose out to more powerful, slower weapons assuming the wielder can place his shots. However, by using a faster firing weapon you're ensuring that you can land constant hits and perhaps disorient your opponent in the process. If you're against someone who knows how to move around, then the rapid fire guns are just about as useful as the rest of them.
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Use Burst-Fire, Maybe? That's what I always do and it works like a charm.
I do burst fire, but burst firing guns that aren't designed to HAVE to burst fire is awkward. AR33 & KF7 have burst fire features, but no other gun does.
Also having to burst guns like the ZMG means that its going to take longer to kill someone cause your having to burst. I shouldn't be FORCED to burst because it's not a recoil system that is forcing me to burst, its an odd invuln system that is forcing me. My bullets are connecting, but they're being mitigated by the invuln system. This also means your damage output is restricted by the invuln system, you could say your DPS has a hard cap to it. You're almost better off just using any pistol.
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Honestly, i think the invulnerability period is one of the things that sets GE64 apart from other shooters. Getting kills doesn't take less skill, or more skill, it just allows for a different kind of strategy.
What set GE:64 apart from other shooters was definitely not this as I don't one person that even knew it was in the game. GE:64 was different because at the time when there wasn't copious amounts of console shooters the whole Objective system was cool and just having a 4 way multiplayer experience was cool. It's 2011 now.
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Rapid fire guns still have their place, but will no doubt loose out to more powerful, slower weapons assuming the wielder can place his shots. However, by using a faster firing weapon you're ensuring that you can land constant hits and perhaps disorient your opponent in the process. If you're against someone who knows how to move around, then the rapid fire guns are just about as useful as the rest of them. [/quote]
You shouldn't have worry about your bullets not registering because of invulnerability. If the recoil on Run and Gun was A LOT higher then people would be more invested in taking careful shots, but as it is the recoil of a Run and Gun compared to an Aimer is negligible. The only guns I've seen that are really good with Aiming are the Moon Raker and the Magnum.
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I know what your saying Flash2011, this has been mentioned so often, unfortunately this mod is designed in such a way that it will only ever appeal to the few rather than the many. It is an unfortunate fact that the servers are empty due to this as well but this is GE:S, that's the way it is made and it was made clear to me in the past that they would rather the mod died than change the core mechanics of the gameplay. But I continue to be a fan, it's as close to the Goldeneye experience as were ever going to get, it continues to get better in all other aspects and the next release is going to be amazing so stick with it buddy.
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Take away invulnerability then you throw away skill. Automatics will always reign supreme without an invulnerability period. For more on this see Counter-Strike or Call of Duty or any other 'current' popular shooter. The fact is that spamming pistols in these games pretty much replicates automatic fire which is the only way they can even approach to balance that fact.
With invulnerability good player with a PP7 can take out an average player with an RCP90, yes, but a good player with an RCP90 can take out a room full of average players with RCP90s.
Again I think you need to drop the perspective of something being old meaning that it's 'outdated' or automatically inferior to current trends. It's different, and if you dislike it for that then you're playing the wrong game. The remake you want came out last year on Wii.
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if you're using an automatic gun you're not going to try and take your shots
Then you're not thinking.
Let's try real-life, where all weapons do 100 damage most of the time, and there is no invuln. The only reasons to go full automatic are:
1) Suppression. You are killing the shit out of terrain to keep someone from having a second to look, aim, and fire back.
2) Gangsta driveby bullshit that is more about intimidation and getting away with random assaults/murders.
3) You're dying/doomed anyway so you go Rambo for your last seconds on earth.
"People die to fast" is valid because we allow LTK, which is defined by "people die to any successful attack." Invuln allows for dogfighting, which is fun to watch and fun to play, despite being unrealistic. Hence, all gun battles in cinema except for serious war flicks.
There is a very obvious purpose to the SMGs in Goldeneye Source. Whenever you don't need max damage, or whenever you can't afford the time you need to aim, spraying bullets will work. SMG combat is all about finishing weakened players ASAP without needing to sight or be certain of your aim. Unless it's pro-magnum, no one typically goes around with pistol over an SMG in Goldeneye Source when they have an SMG. The SMG's first shot is often on-par or better than the pistol's first shot, and proper bursting ensures that when you miss, you often get body or limb damage instead of zero damage.
Anyway, we already discussed this in live voice chat, so I shouldn't need to elaborate much further. Invuln directly nerfs no-skill spamming while rewarding disciplined weapon technique.
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I know what your saying Flash2011, this has been mentioned so often, unfortunately this mod is designed in such a way that it will only ever appeal to the few rather than the many. It is an unfortunate fact that the servers are empty due to this as well but this is GE:S, that's the way it is made and it was made clear to me in the past that they would rather the mod died than change the core mechanics of the gameplay. But I continue to be a fan, it's as close to the Goldeneye experience as were ever going to get, it continues to get better in all other aspects and the next release is going to be amazing so stick with it buddy.
I hear you, it's sad to see it be like this. I love Goldeneye for what it was and the only hope I had was that one day it would get remade with a modernized feel to it. As it is this mod to me is just nostalgia.
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I hear you, it's sad to see it be like this. I love Goldeneye for what it was and the only hope I had was that one day it would get remade with a modernized feel to it. As it is this mod to me is just nostalgia.
Nostalgia is one of the main goals of the mod.
"GoldenEye: Source is a total conversion modification of Half-Life 2. It is a fan made artistic recreation, released for free, with only one goal in mind; to bring the memories and experiences from the original GoldenEye64 back to life using Source' Orange Box Technology.
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Nostalgia is fine and dandy, but why not ask the players this "Is their anything you would like to see different? Should we change anything? What do you like and dislike about the mod?"
I feel like that isn't even a thought on the devs minds. (They're cool guys though)
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Well, The Impressions & Feedback forum is there for this, And Dev's read everything that gets into that section, But changing the whole mechanism of the mod is out of the question for them, I hope you understand that.
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I understand they won't change the CORE mechanic but the invuln is really wacky.
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why not ask the players
Stagnation.
By proportion, how many people in the world are artists? How many are musicians? How many are architects? Damn fucking few. Most people are consumers, not creators. Most people will simply want to consume more of what they already consume at a lower cost of effort.the invuln is really wacky.
Elaborate, please.
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Didn't I already explain the wacky part of the invuln in my original post?
I'll explain it again: The invuln system is bad because it caps how fast you can kills someone. It also prevents players from killing one another in a timely manner.
I WAS JUST in a game and I was using the ZMG up close and they had a KF7, the fight took like 10 seconds because we could only do so much damage per second. Neither one of us could unload on each other cause that's pointless. There really is no point in have fully automatic guns, you should faster than the invuln timer. If i can fire 3 shots in half a second and the invuln system is half a second long thats 2 wasted bullets.
That means I have to fire my shots sporadically and I might as well be using a semi automatic weapon. Not only are the auto weapons (besides AR33) less accurate but because of the invuln system it makes them less reliable compared to slower weapons.
If the system was gone it would be more of a matter of who had better aim because If i was really good at aiming in the right places I could wipe out 2-3 maybe more people in 1 life. As it is, the people with more HP and armor have SUCH HUGE advantage.
In Counterstrike if someone has 10hp and another 100hp, the person with 10hp has a chance of winning because he could get that lucky head shot or maybe he places his shots better. Though the player with 100hp will probably win regardless of how good he is based on the fact he can last longer and maybe a random shot will clip the guy with 10hp.
I don't see the problem with bursting a guy in half a second with 4 bullets. All of them register, do damage and I have the upper hand, but as it is now, if I did that, only 1 bullet would connect giving the opponent plenty of time to react.
Also, if you go up behind someone and point blank them in the head with D5k or KF7, they will always have a chance to turn around fight back because only 1 bullet will register and that doesn't score a kill.
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Be careful, your emotions are showing.
Listen, you keep arguing about this so that means you only want 1 outcome, you want us to remove invulnerability.
That is not going to happen, but we accept your criticism.
What will happen is that we will better educate the player about the invulnerability mechanic and explain why it is in the mod and what it does for them when playing.
Think about this, if we remove invuln then you die faster unless we give people armor (no) or more health points (no) or nerf weapon damages. So barring any changes, you die faster and spend less time playing the game due to the mandated 8 second death sequence. Also, you are way more susceptible to "back kills" without any chance of rebuttle (which is my worst gripe in any normal game).
We have noted your criticism, it has caused some stir, but you will not see the removal of the invuln mechanic, sorry.
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Seems like the game would have a lot more depth if invuln was gone though.
The other part is it sounds like you guys don't want to have deal with the headache of balancing the issues that would come along with removing invuln.
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Invuln can't be removed. Even your beloved Counterstrike has it. Because, the weapon's fire rate IS an invulnerability period. If a weapon fires at 10 r.p.s., then it induces a 10ms invuln period whenever it goes bang.
Besides, we're trying to reduce the amount of Boom Headshot culture in this game, not stroke it to climax.
As we discussed, we had no-invuln before, in Alpha 1. The whole game boiled down to pure run and gun. You got the KF7, and you drove it straight into people's faces. ZMG was just lesser-KF7, since it was equally spammy and did less d.p.s. The pistol was something you spammed as a semi-automatic SMG. It also was your only long-range weapon, since it had the smallest spread, save Golden Gun. The Automatic Shotgun was best down hallways, since its accuracy was better than the SMGs, by virtue of it firing a zillion pellets at once and being on the stock Valve code was guaranteed damage.
Adding invuln was what cured the balance headache. With it, one skillful bullet is worth as much as a skillful burst. The winner is the one who shoots better, not just more.
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I actually think removing Invulnerability would be a bad idea, but let me ask you this out of curiosity, Is it different for each weapon? If not, it should be adjusted possibly, or tweaked a little to please the both the few and the many.
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Invuln can't be removed. Even your beloved Counterstrike has it. Because, the weapon's fire rate IS an invulnerability period. If a weapon fires at 10 r.p.s., then it induces a 10ms invuln period whenever it goes bang.
Besides, we're trying to reduce the amount of Boom Headshot culture in this game, not stroke it to climax.
As we discussed, we had no-invuln before, in Alpha 1. The whole game boiled down to pure run and gun. You got the KF7, and you drove it straight into people's faces. ZMG was just lesser-KF7, since it was equally spammy and did less d.p.s. The pistol was something you spammed as a semi-automatic SMG. Non-stop clicking because its damage was low. It also was your only long-range weapon, since it had the smallest spread, save Golden Gun. The Automatic Shotgun was best down hallways, since its accuracy was better than the SMGs, by virtue of it firing a zillion pellets at once and being on the stock Valve code was guaranteed damage.
Adding invuln was what cured the balance headache. With it, one skillful bullet is worth as much as a skillful burst. The winner is the one who shoots better, not just more.
Boom headshot culture? All you did was make it even MORE important to get head shots because body shots are practically worthless. You guys keep on and keep on about how important it is to pick your shots...but what you're really saying is go for the head, hitting the head is key to getting kills.
Removing invuln would mean that hitting the body actually does something now.
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Culture is the operative word, there. CS is full of egos who burst with pride because they've memorized Dust 2 to a reflexive level, or because they spammed AK in a room and got lucky.
I'll put it this way: If you were aiming for the head, you wouldn't be affected much by invulnerability, because you would have a d.p.s. of 75~100 with even the terrible SMGs you bemoan. If only one of six bullets counts due to invuln, and we then remove invuln and reduce damage by a factor of six to balance, would you be killing any faster? No, same d.p.s. It would actually be lower in practice, since with invuln, you're paid for six hits on the first one, and the next five are immaterial.
The real difference is this, as far as your comparison to Counterstrike is concerned:
In CS, spraying four bullets at the head is usually lethal. Spraying four bullets at the chest is usually lethal. At the head, the first bullet or first two get the kill and the others hit the backstop. At the chest, they hopefully add up to 100+ or are enough to finish a wounded warrior.
We (ourselves and the original GE devs for that matter) decided that only the burst at the head is headshot-worthy and the chest-level attack doesn't count as Good Enough so frequently. Because our weapons are highly accurate, random headshots are uncommon, while in CS, you game the recoil system to increase your random HS chance.
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Sort of going back to only gameplays from the original game, Live and Let Die, Capture the Key, and GunGame are new modes for GE:S. Also my Casino Royale modes, Uplink, E-S's Hold The Briefcase and a few others are in some server rotations. If you have any good ideas for gameplays make a thread. If it's a good suggestion and possible using the GE:S code someone might make it : )
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By proportion, how many people in the world are artists? How many are musicians? How many are architects? Damn fucking few. Most people are consumers, not creators. Most people will simply want to consume more of what they already consume at a lower cost of effort.
Hmm, your are so right. Not many students in colleges want to go and become a musician, artists... Architects? probably like buildings and stuff.. maybe...
Good thinking though...
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Basically how I see it is this with invuln.
You guys are worried that skilled players are going to get killed by newbies cause of the random headshot 1-2 hit kills. The thing is tho that maybe 20% of the time newbie players will score an easy kill with a random headshot. 80% of the time though skilled players will be able to get more headshots cause they're better at placing shots.
I'll put it this way: If you were aiming for the head, you wouldn't be affected much by invulnerability, because you would have a d.p.s. of 75~100 with even the terrible SMGs you bemoan. If only one of six bullets counts due to invuln, and we then remove invuln and reduce damage by a factor of six to balance, would you be killing any faster? No, same d.p.s. It would actually be lower in practice, since with invuln, you're paid for six hits on the first one, and the next five are immaterial.
The DPS then would be based on the guns RoF, which makes guns unique amongst each other. A ZMG would be good cause it can potentially put out more bullets then the D5k, but D5k would be more manageable because of its lower RoF. The RoF dictates the DPS.
Right now you have a static DPS system that ALL guns must adhere by. The invuln system.
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By proportion, how many people in the world are artists? How many are musicians? How many are architects? Damn fucking few. Most people are consumers, not creators. Most people will simply want to consume more of what they already consume at a lower cost of effort.
This quote is terrible because it basically is saying "I'm an artist and I make my work for myself, either love it or hate it."
In reality though this "Art" is actually just copy of another artists work. This "Art" in order to be considered good art or well liked, which is what all artists want, has to be approved by the user base.
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You guys are worried that skilled players are going to get killed by newbies cause of the random headshot 1-2 hit kills.
Quaking in our boots. If any of us dies once to a newbie, we slit our wrists in the bathtub.more manageable
You're assuming rate of fire affects accuracy, because you assume it affects recoil, because your idea of Goldeneye on PC is Counterstrike with player skins.
My statement does not imply that I am an artist. I'm pretty much piss at art, music, and architecture, although I can handle a drafting machine. My statement underscores the problem with a general election: very few of those polled are going to approach the question as a creative mind guiding another creative mind.
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None of what you have yet to say has convinced me that the invuln system makes any sense.
I'm arguing that it's a bad system and you should work on removing it and balancing it around that. All you've done is manage to make fun of me.
This is the impressions & feed back forum, I've left my feed back and impression as one of your players and all you've done is instead of saying to your self, "Maybe our players don't enjoy this system, I thought it would work and it hasn't." you've opted for arguing with me and making fun of me.
Here are a list of things you've said to either get at me or just don't make any sense.
CS is full of egos who burst with pride because they've memorized Dust 2 to a reflexive level, or because they spammed AK in a room and got lucky.
Hardly. Just because there are some like that doesn't mean your game is going to have that.
Because our weapons are highly accurate, random headshots are uncommon, while in CS, you game the recoil system to increase your random HS chance.
The guns in GE:Source are far more inaccurate than those in CS because in CS almost every time you fire or burst the initial burst is super accurate for most guns. The first bullet i would say 99% of the time goes to the center of the screen. Not so in GE:Source. Over the course of unloading your gun, yeah GE:Source is more accurate, but if your not meant to full auto then what's the point?
Even your beloved Counterstrike has it
I don't love Counterstrike, I'm only using it as a comparison. I could just as easily say Left 4 Dead or Nexon FPS games. CS just happens to the one most people have probably played. Don't get mad at me for only using CS as an example.
because you would have a d.p.s. of 75~100 with even the terrible SMGs you bemoan.
Your trying to make me sound like i'm a whiner when i'm merely stating feedback from my impression in the Impressions & Feedback forum. I think the SMG's are currently so unbalanced you may as well have left them out of the game. Pistols and Rifles do it better.
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Listen man I was cool with you presenting your opinion earlier, I even showed you ingame what was up. Please have the common decency to not pick a fight with VC, you won't win, he has no heart.
What is your goal in all this? We are not going to change the mechanic. If you don't like it after playing the game, I'm sorry but there are about 10,000 other games you can play that you might like. All games are not for everyone, and our game is certainly not a one-size-fits all affair.
So, unless you have some more feedback to give us BESIDES INVULNERABILITY, I want to see this discussion ended.
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I'm just at a loss for words.
I feel like I've presented you guy with a golden opportunity to take a classic game and elevate it to new heights (I'm not talking JUST about the invuln system).
What if other people felt the same way as I did about removing the system?
I've talked to numerous players and most if not all of them agreed that the invuln system was reallly funky.
I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a jerk. I'm just an experienced gamer and I've played many games and I'm aspiring designer. I try to take what doesn't make sense in video games and dissect it and improve upon it. An example of this would be the Grenades in CoD4, they were WAAAAY out of hand. What did I do? I played ProMod and talked the devs about it and they agreed that nades were out of hand so they toned down the radius and damage. That created a much more entertaining environment and attracted much more players.
When game sequels come out they typically take the original game and improve upon it. Also QA tests what works and doesn't work, if the title launches and the fans dislike it what QA thought worked, the devs rectify it through patches (typically that's how it goes).
I feel like you guys can take GE:64, see what really isn't fun or doesn't hold up in 2011 and fix it. If GE:64 had a few guns that ruined gameplay and players hated it would you just add those guns in and leave them as is and just say "Hey players, i know they suck, but the original had it...so deal with it."?
As a fan of GE:64 from back when it launched and someone who's been wanting a sequel since then I was excited to hear there was remake on steam. Hoping it was going to be something new and exciting I was immediately let down when I started playing it as I realized that, no matter how good you can be, because of how this is version is an exact replica of the original, you'll never be able to score a lot of kills based on skill. Its just like all the other old run and gun games.
That is odd to me to see that because I feel like "Why would anyone seriously want to go back to playing the way games use to be made when you can simply take a classic and make it super awesome."
Which is again why Duke Nukem Forever bombed and why GE:Source player base is so tiny.
My last example would be: Your making a shooter, you think its going to be super awesome and you think to your self, Duke Nukem Forever is a game i'd like to remake. You remake it, word for word, page for page, scene for scene. You notice the small player base and all the complaints saying "Why would you want to remake an outdated game and not even improve upon. You know what's wrong with it and how to easily escalate it to super star status, but instead you simply say "I don't care, I remade it the exact same way and that's final, deal with it or don't play it". Why would you ever want that as a designer/developer, you want players to play your game right?
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I do know where your coming from Flash2011, I've been here before, but for us this is a mod, for them this is their baby, would you want to change any of the features on your baby, besides this is a remake and that's exactly what it does, it's original because of that fact. The mod has an awkward learning curve for sure and it does scare away a lot of players, but just stick with it cos this is as good a remake as your ever going to get, and the next release s going to be awesome.
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I do know where your coming from Flash2011, I've been here before, but for us this is a mod, for them this is their baby, would you want to change any of the features on your baby, besides this is a remake and that's exactly what it does, it's original because of that fact. The mod has an awkward learning curve for sure and it does scare away a lot of players, but just stick with it cos this is as good a remake as your ever going to get, and the next release s going to be awesome.
I feel like we might as well just give up hope and since this is as good as ever going to get sounds like "shut up and like it or don't play it"
As for the next release, is it going to matter? They obviously don't care what their player base has to say. League of Legends for example listens to their community. A champion known as Xin was nerfed, everyone said your crazy for doing that, they unnerf him. Sounds like common sense to me.
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I can say right now that if we took out invurn there would be a lot more people than just you angry at us and demanding we change it back.
This game is different. There are different strategies involved and learning to adapt and compensate for them is part of the game. Yes, that means automatic weapons aren't as powerful as they would be traditionally. Yes, that means that better weapon/more health = higher chance at victory. However, these are elements that contribute to GE:S being a new experience rather than another "modern" shooter.
We've tried the exclusion of the invurn mechanic, and it just didn't work. We've been working with this game for half a decade now, we've established what works and what doesn't. While it is true that there are several issues with our mod, they are more so kinks to work out rather than issues with the core gameplay.
I really don't see why this is still going on. It's been explained as to why we've kept this mechanic and why it works. I don't see how you could go on saying the game is just a "run and gun" shooter with no skill element when strategy is one of the most important things to keep in mind when aiming for a good performance. Correct use of the radar and the prediction of enemy actions allows you to know where everyone will be in 10 seconds and how you can take advantage of that. Most of the experienced players in our mod have about the same relative performance as the pros in other games. Sure, jumping in someone's face or ambushing them don't work too well with the invulnerability and radar, but this only allows for other tactics.
Notice that the definition of skill is not constant across platforms. In some games, it's about having good aim. In others, it's about reflexes and tactics. In our mod, it's about awareness and strategy. Just because the skills you've learned in counterstrike don't work in GE:S doesn't mean that the game lacks a skillful element, it just means you haven't honed in on it yet. Some people want a game that caters to good reflexes or ambush tactics, but GE:S isn't designed for that.
Really, all i can say at this point is that our mod isn't trying to be COD or Counterstrike. I don't see why you want the elements of one game in another one if you can just play the first one. We're giving you a new experience, just because it's fundamentally different from the shovel-ware produced nowadays doesn't mean it's not as good.
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I can say right now that if we took out invurn there would be a lot more people than just you angry at us and demanding we change it back.
Did you test this on live servers or was it in house testing? I find it hard to believe that the invuln system being gone would be anything but better.
Correct use of the radar and the prediction of enemy actions allows you to know where everyone will be in 10 seconds and how you can take advantage of that.
I don't want to say this radar is for newbies, because I like radars, but the fact it reveals where everyone is at all times whether they've fired a shot or not doesn't exactly make it difficult to use. You know exactly where your opponent is going to be.
I've had show downs where people just hid behind pillars waiting because they knew when you were going to move and they'd just aim in that direction. Not a good idea, the radar is too dumb down and there is no predicting anything cause you can just see when they're about to move left or right or running away.
Sure, jumping in someone's face or ambushing them don't work too well with the invulnerability and radar, but this only allows for other tactics.
Explain these "other tactics". As far as i've seen its just spray each other sporadically.
In our mod, it's about awareness and strategy. Just because the skills you've learned in counterstrike don't work in GE:S doesn't mean that the game lacks a skillful element, it just means you haven't honed in on it yet. Some people want a game that caters to good reflexes or ambush tactics, but GE:S isn't designed for that.
Elaborate please.
Really, all i can say at this point is that our mod isn't trying to be COD or Counterstrike. I don't see why you want the elements of one game in another one if you can just play the first one. We're giving you a new experience, just because it's fundamentally different from the shovel-ware produced nowadays doesn't mean it's not as good.
I'm not simply asking for what's in COD or CS. I'm saying, look at HUGELY successful those 2 games are, look at how amazing the mechanics are compared to GE:64 (Counterstrike only came out 2 years AFTER GE:64 and IS STILL PLAYED HEAVILY). Why not utilize what those 2 games have in common and create something NEW.
Instead of just carbon copying an outdated mechanic from 1997, why not create a new updated mechanic designed for modern gamers?
I don't see why you want the elements of one game in another one if you can just play the first one.
Why don't I just turn on my N64 and play Goldeneye its literally the same experience as your mod. Modernize the mechanics and you'll have instant gold on your hands.
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Why don't I just turn on my N64 and play Goldeneye its literally the same experience as your mod. Modernize the mechanics and you'll have instant gold on your hands.
Last i checked wasn't that the actual point of this mod to be a REMAKE of the classic goldeneye 64 game? And thats the general reason i like this mod as much as i do its about as close to possible as a 1:1 port with graphical improvements.
Removing that dynamic would be a major divergence from the original remake status of the game and not just a a small addition or modernization.
hey this mod has a python API, could it just be expanded to allow for Flash2011 to work on his very own "improved" no invlun game mode so he can quit his bitching? and if it works out enough in the court of public opinion let the game mode be a addition to the mod. :P
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Yes you can definitely get *close* to a no-invuln system by tweaking all damages that pass through: ShouldDoCustomDamage( ... )
You'd want to do more damage the lower their health is since you get more invuln after less than 50%, so to curtail that I would just finish them off if the damage is 75% or greater than their remaining health.
You could even spawn some blood spouts with the particle effect call: GEUtil.ParticleEffect( ... )
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hey this mod has a python API, could it just be expanded to allow for Flash2011 to work on his very own "improved" no invlun game mode so he can quit his bitching? and if it works out enough in the court of public opinion let the game mode be a addition to the mod. :P
One should never facilitate mediocrity when they strive for perfection.
Flash I think your problem is you firmly believe that you are correct and you are not willing to consider the posibility that you are wrong. I can only hope as you grow older you drop the juvenile ego-driven preaching mentality and realise that there's a difference between presenting your opinion and attempting to beat people into submission with it.
You are arguing with people who individually know exponentially more about the subject you are talking about than you do, and it's clear you are not looking for a rationalization or an explanation as to why your idea is a bad one, you are not looking for constructive criticism, you are only looking to have your idea accepted and implemented.
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I have heard enough of the invuln stuff, if another thread comes up about it, you will not be welcome here anymore. Thank you for your cooperation.