GoldenEye: Source Forums
Debriefing => Impressions & Feedback => Topic started by: teekay2010 on August 04, 2010, 08:03:46 pm
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I searched the forum but couldn't find anything all that relevant.
What's the deal with jumping? The jump height has been reduced from hl2... probably because the original GoldenEye didn't allow jumping... right? I'm assuming this was a decision made to make the new GE:S more similar to the classic game. Though, in GE:S, you can still get over most obstacles with the hacky crouch-jump.
As I'm designing maps, I find myself more often than not wanting the player to be able to jump a tad higher. I have a platform on the ground that any human being in real life step onto... it has no railings or anything... probably around 32 units high, but I don't have my map open to verify (since I'm at work on break). It's just slightly too high to walk or jump onto. If it's any shorter of a platform, it wouldn't look right. Now I'm stuck placing invisible steps around the platform's perimeter if I want to keep the map looking as-is and solve the problem.
Is there any chance that the jump height can be revised?
It seems like most classic maps don't allow you to jump off ledges anyway... so jumping probably wouldn't affect classic map gameplay all that much.
I know it might be a little difficult to change at this point because certain maps may need to be reworked a bit.
A possibility? Or is everyone else okay with jumping?
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Jumping in general is a big 'meh' from me, I can see why crouch-jumping is necessary for navigating over obstacles, but it shouldn't be the feasible way of dodging bullets/cheating death that it is. Especially given that jumping was no part of the gameplay of the original.
The main problems I see with jumping at the moment are:
- Jumping has no impact on weapon accuracy compared with moving normally
- Jumping conserves your momentum, making it a viable way to dodge and jump around at wall-run speed.
- Crouch-jumping is glitchy and needs animations so that the player doesn't shoot up 5ft in the air.
Personally what I'd like to see in the future is some kind of penalty of reduced movement speed and accuracy when jumping.. meaning that someone can't so easily jump around like an idiot trying not to get shot, at the moment jumping gives a huge advantage for people with spraying weapons over people with accurate weapons. Jumping should be purely navigational.
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Crouch-jumping is glitchy and needs animations so that the player doesn't shoot up 5ft in the air.
This is not true in 4.0. I totally rewrote jump-duck code in 4.0 to add in a delay (a crouch/uncrouch delay if you will) when you press or release the crouch button. Secondly, I totally disabled the ability to "unduck" in midair. Once you are ducked, you stay ducked until you land. This was the main cause of the popping into the air 5 ft (thanks Valve!).
Furthermore, there is a dynamic re-jump delay that is put into place everytime you jump (regardless of ducking). If you jump and land at the same height or lower the delay is at maximum (~1.5 seconds) and if you jump and land higher than you started it is minimized by a function of that height difference. This encourages the use of jumping to clear obstacles while preventing bunny-hopping style jumping.
Now, as for the duck height. It is PERFECTLY set to allow a player to mount a standard sized box/prop using a properly timed jump-duck. No more, no less. It will not be changed. I forget the exact unit height, but I believe it is 36 units. It was tuned to be high enough to jump-duck into the windows on cradle and to leap over railings without excessive difficulty.
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From the player's perspective, yes crouch jumping works that way.. But to other players, when you're crouch jumping your player model does shoot up to a ridiculous height.
Here I took screenshots to compare the apex of the jump to the crouch jump:
(http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/8946/jumpingq.jpg)
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The standard size for railings in Source is 40 units, as used in every HL2, CSS, and GES map. This is easily jumpable with a duck-jump.
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From the player's perspective, yes crouch jumping works that way.. But to other players, when you're crouch jumping your player model does shoot up to a ridiculous height.
Mea Culpa. I forgot there is no duck-jump anim to accompany the fix..... I might look into that for v4.1 while we still have it for testing..
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So the crouch-jumping over obstacles is intentional? I honestly thought at first it might have been an overlooked glitch. Or a happy accident that got left in.
What's the point? So that only people who know about crouch-jumping can get over obstacles? Was it made so that players would only be able to jump high to get over obstacles and not jump annoyingly like jackrabbits all over the place?
I just don't fully see the point of crouch-jumping. And I don't see how jumping a little higher and skipping the whole crouch-jumping thing as a gameplay mechanic would ruin the gameplay. Yes, I know GoldenEye didn't allow you to jump... but we're in 2010 and all the fps games I can think of allow decent jumping now. GE:S is not a exact remake (as we all know). Not only that, but as I mentioned before, the classic maps don't allow you to jump over ledges so I can't see true jumping really ruining classic gameplay.
If you guys really like the crouch jumping thing... is there any chance that it could get replaced with a sort of climb mechanism eventually? I know it could be annoyingly hard to program... but if you were in front of an obstacle that was of a correct height and jumped into it, it would be nice if you sort of paused for a sec as your character grabbed on climbed over it. I guess I'm sort of visualizing what happens in a number of games... the one that comes to mind is GTA IV... when you jump and you're near something the correct height, you grab onto it and pull yourself up.
This way you could still get over tall obstacles without jumping stupid high... and without glitchy-crouch-jumping over it. And also it would slow you down a tad while climbing up, adding an interesting timing element to gameplay... so you can't just jump over a rail and run away from a pursuer like a jackass. Maybe no climbing for flag-holders either. Could be interesting.
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You do realize though that adding that "grabbing" feature for the side of railing or whatever has the potential of breaking gameplay in maps. If players are able to grab sides of objects/walls/props they might be able to exploit the level or get in areas that are not supposed to be accessible. On top of that, the grab and pull up reminds me too much of COD4 and other games...and I, personally, don't want anything in our mod that reminds me of that game in a definitive way. IMO, i like the way it is other than the jump animation km mentioned being needed in 4.1 to make the player not appear high in the air. :)
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Beside the CoD feeling of it, the climb would need something like a new brush entity placed on each climbable object. While this would be possible to add in the official maps, all the 3rd party maps would suffer from it as some might never get a new version.
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If the climbing would require a new entity, I revoke my support for climbing haha... seems like that would be much more trouble than it's worth. Crouch-jumping is fine enough I guess... it just seems a little weird to me, that's all.
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it does have quite a different feeling to it..but i have gotten kind of used to as I played. I know there were a few that stopped playing because of it (or one of the reasons) but they seem to have gotten used to it now. ;)
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I know there were a few that stopped playing because of it
you wouldn't be referring to me now would you?
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you wouldn't be referring to me now would you?
hehe
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you wouldn't be referring to me now would you?
Noooooooooo, of course not. Notice the wink above? ::) :P <3 Furry love
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<3 Furry love
Disgusting. >:(
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Disgusting. >:(
yeah right, you like it. Don't lie to me...you posted it on my profile..I know you like it. Plus, you are just trying to impress the forum members that you aren't kinky like that. :)
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There are ways to make a player seemlesly walk up a vertical wall without slowing them down I dont know how it is done as I am not a mapper. Here is pic of "Turbo ladder" they dotn have to be that high either I think they can be smaller. Maybe some use?
(http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc324/k33fy/th_helix_002.jpg) (http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc324/k33fy/helix_002.jpg)
more screens here
http://boshed.hl2dm.org.uk/maps/helix/
Download the map for HL2DM
http://www.hl2dm-university.com/mappacks/dm_helix.rar
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There are more severe jumping problems.