GoldenEye: Source Forums
Debriefing => Impressions & Feedback => Topic started by: terps4life90 on May 10, 2010, 11:36:53 am
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I have noticed the the hit registry is off, i have been spectating alot to see if it was just me, and it wasn't, so if you guys to please check out that problem that would be great, Thanks. Love the mod.
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There are several things to this issue. One is our hit boxes are way smaller than other ones in TF2 or HL2:DM. The way they are currently it is roughly perfectly around their body. Another factor to this issue is no other mod really had a Licence to Kill style, where one shot is supposed to kill you. You shot, and on your end you get the hit and see blood, but on the other players end, your shot has missed the hit box, thus letting a kill blow go un-noticed.
Lastly, there is a hit delay between shots. If you fire away into a person, not all bullets are going to count. Lets say that you start shooting someone, aiming at the floor and moving up. You are going to get the limb shot first which is 1/4 a head shot, as your shots continue to hit, they do no damage because the other player is immune for a short while, thus letting him place a well timed shot to your face.
If we increased the hitboxes, it would help the LTK problem, but you could hide behind a wall and still die because the dude was shooting at you managed to get your hotbox first. Also, when a player spawns, they have a immunity for a few seconds unless thay press the shoot button within that time.
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Watching in spectator mode is the worst way to tell if there are hit reg problems. You are basically watching client-side predicted players shooting at other client-side predicted players. This means their shots will almost NEVER line up with reality.
Trust me, there are no hit reg issues besides the unavoidable prediction error issues that are inherent in every multiplayer game on Earth.
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That and the invulnerability period ::)
Hl2DM hitboxes fit the models quite well apart from the head, if at a certain angle the area to hit is massive making headshots very easy indeed. Was a similar problem in Quake Live so not they use cylinders instead of boxes.
(http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc324/k33fy/screenshots/th_dm_joyride0001.jpg) (http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc324/k33fy/screenshots/dm_joyride0001.jpg)
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I always put these settings in my autoexec.cfg
fps_max 101
cl_cmdrate 66
cl_updaterate 66
rate 30000
cl_interp 0.03
cl_interp_ratio 2
never had any problem with the hit registration and i'm really picky about it, even in the wn chicago server ( where i ping about 180ms ~ )
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This really pissed me off the other night. I had 20ms of latency to the server, but half the players were 100+. They were literally unhitable. This was after 8 or more rounds that had some hiccups here and there, but were mostly pretty good. But on my last round of the night, they could literally stand still, and I could pump a full magazine of whatever automatic weapon into them, and barely any damage registered at all. Something is off, I don't know if it's fixable or not, but it's not reliable like Source usually is.
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Hitreg is still awful. I've suffered as many as three consecutive blood-no-kill Golden Gun attacks in 4.2, and I'm not able to use my fire-and-forget technique because every time I kill someone I have to re-target and kill them again just to be sure, which often leaves me exposed to taking damage. As aforementioned, Source sucks, but frankly I think we need a way for the game to detect when it is screwing the pooch so it can pull out and get its pants on before the player opens the game's bedroom door asking to kill the guy his AuG or LTK pistol is precisely targeting.
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I honestly don't have that many issues with hitreg.....occasional golden gun unregistered hits...but it is generally consistent for me...
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I've just gotten used to it. It's pretty common in all source games and most people die in 1, occasionally 2 golden gun hits that are dead center. If i miss the center of their body by the slightest margin i usually don't rely on the kill (though i get it often enough). Of course, there are people out there with ISP hacks who take anywhere from 3 to 5 golden gun hits every time i meet them, but for the most part i don't take too much damage from them for the same reasons.
The thing to keep in mind about bad hit reg is; you probably get saved by it as much as it saves other people from you. Though i can say that's hard to keep in mind when that guy standing still in aimmode is taking several golden gun hits to the face without showing any discomfort.
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I have 300+ latency to most servers i go in. and you know what? I don't lead anymore. I just aim right at what I see.
Goldengun kills everytime I see blood, they drop. Never once in the last few months have I seen blood on a one hit gun and it not translated to a kill.
You guys must have bad luck, or bad isp. Either way there are those of us who don't even get hurt by supposed hit reg. To me is amazing. Go in CSS with a 300 ping and lag like a fuck trying to kill anyone is a bitch.
GES > commercial source games
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i still get hit issues here and there, but its a hell of a lot better than most games.
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I'm giving this a healthy bump because I'm starting to lose patience with this issue. It's been my biggest issue with the mod since I started playing it in December of 2008.
Lets say that you start shooting someone, aiming at the floor and moving up. You are going to get the limb shot first which is 1/4 a head shot, as your shots continue to hit, they do no damage because the other player is immune for a short while, thus letting him place a well timed shot to your face.
THIS IS DISTURBING. Why does this occur? Why aren't my shots giving damage? Why do they get this special invulnerability period? I have never heard of such a situation like that.
I'm not trying to add salt to any wounds, but I have SIX friends on Steam who refuse to play this mod because of the "hitboxes."
For those of you who aren't having any issues, that's great. But it seems to be folks associated with the mod that are claiming no issues (well, besides VC) -- and I'm not insinuating you guys are "trying to cover up" something. My guess is you've been at it so long, you've kinda adjusted to the issue.
I am so grateful that all of you (who've put countless hours in this mod) have dedicated your free time to making a game for thousands to enjoy but I feel this one glaring issue is really hurting the mod.
Literally 3 weeks ago, there were over a hundred people playing at the same time. Obviously, it was due to the new patch. But I think the sharp decline is largely contributed to the hitboxes. I'm basing this off of friends who downloaded the new Version under the impression that the hitboxes were "fixed" but found that they were still having the same issue.
There are other mods that will NEVER come as close to GE:S in terms of visual polish and team dedication. Hell, you guys are Top 5 on MODDB. But other mediocre mods like ZPS are beating GES's playerbase by the hundreds. Not bashing ZPS or its Devs -- that mod was excellent back in the day but has severely fallen off in terms of dedication and actual in-game content.
Anyway, I'm starting to sound like a whiney-fanboy-"know-it-all" -- and I'm not trying to at all. I just want to voice my concern because I know that so many of you have dedicated so much time to this mod for it to be so bare in terms of playerbase.
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It's not an issue, it's how the original gameplay worked. Everyone in GE64 was just too busy shooting walls with the very occasional hit thanks to the joystick imprecision and not even noticing the invuln period.
What I think could really help is if we could somehow add some sort of visual feedback to indicate when players are invulnerable after taking damage, since nobody seems to understand how it's supposed to work otherwise.
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Everyone in GE64 was just too busy shooting walls with the very occasional hit thanks to the joystick imprecision and not even noticing the invuln period.
Automatics and/or auto-aim made it pretty obvious to me when I was 14, which is why I don't understand how so many people who have played the game don't understand the invuln time...
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They haven't played the original game. That should be one of the first things you notice if you listen to conversation any time the original game is mentioned.
"I have never heard of such a situation like that."
Turn on any Mega Man game.
Get hit.
See him flashing?
That situation has been standard in nearly every platformer that uses any HP system since the 80's. Spam shooters are pretty much the only genre that doesn't use it in some fashion.
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They haven't played the original game. That should be one of the first things you notice if you listen to conversation any time the original game is mentioned.
While it may not be often that someone complains of not killing fast enough without having played the game, both criteria are still met from time to time and that troubles me.
*Besides, I was replying specifically to "Everyone in GE64 was just too busy shooting walls with the very occasional hit".
Turn on any Mega Man game.
Get hit.
See him flashing?
qft.
*~Edit
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Everyone in GE64 was just too busy shooting walls with the very occasional hit thanks to the joystick imprecision
This statement could not be any more untrue and it sounds to me like you never played Goldeneye 64, either that or you were bad at it. That was the whole point of the target on Goldeneye which me and people I played against always made great use of, there were plenty of quick kills when we used to play, even long distance and the pad precision was brilliant (Provided they weren't worn out). I've got Perfect Dark on my Xbox 360 and sometimes its just unplayable without the precision of an N64 controller.
However, I agree with this post in that the gameplay suffers in comparison to the original, but what can be done about it? Maybe a piece of code that compensates for the lag and alters the mechanics accordingly during the loading process, or even while the games running.
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THIS IS DISTURBING. Why does this occur? Why aren't my shots giving damage? Why do they get this special invulnerability period? I have never heard of such a situation like that.
Twiggy are you f'in serious man? Read the documentation and then enlighten your friends: http://wiki.goldeneyesource.net/index.php/V4.1_Release_Documentation#Damage_and_Invulnerability
This is not a mistake, cover up, or poor code. This is the way GE64 handled damage, and handled it well! The focus is NOT on who does the most damage with the most bullets, its who does the most damage with the BEST AIM and TIMING.
People mistake invulnerability for some sort of "hitbox issue". If you took the 5 min out of your day to read our well written documentation, you would realize it is not the case AT ALL.
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The netcode in the OB engine is garbage anyway its too forgiving I often get moved back in time and see enemies do the same when I have killed them.
HL2DM was recently upgraded to OB engine and yes the hitreg is pretty similar (headshots and no kill/damage dealt or grenades doing zero damage when landing at enemies feet and of course the teleporting effect.) All the same features occur in goldeneye source but are magnified by the invulnerability when shot so you can never be sure if that shot hit and did no damage due to invuln period or bad registration or was it a hit?
It also doesnt help any when server admins use crappy low rates which choke the servers up 30KB/second (sv_maxrate 30000) it needs to be at least double that especially on the 32 player 24/7 cradle servers.
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Twiggy are you f'in serious man? Read the documentation and then enlighten your friends: http://wiki.goldeneyesource.net/index.php/V4.1_Release_Documentation#Damage_and_Invulnerability
This is not a mistake, cover up, or poor code. This is the way GE64 handled damage, and handled it well! The focus is NOT on who does the most damage with the most bullets, its who does the most damage with the BEST AIM and TIMING.
People mistake invulnerability for some sort of "hitbox issue". If you took the 5 min out of your day to read our well written documentation, you would realize it is not the case AT ALL.
I disagree, I very much understand how the game works and still think your hit registry is off some and inconsistent. I don't say that about games ever if I know its fair, but I consonantly find that GES is off. I'm not sure if its a latency issue or what, but something is off. You have to account for it in order to get kills. I had to adjust my playing style.
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Oh shit i totally forgot about this thread lol. Now that i have been playing this mod or game since 3.0 i have got to say that the hit registry is actually quite good, you will always have to deal with people's shitty ping and lag, if it weren't for those to things i'd say the hit reg is almost perfect.
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Oh shit i totally forgot about this thread lol. Now that i have been playing this mod or game since 3.0 i have got to say that the hit registry is actually quite good, you will always have to deal with people's shitty ping and lag, if it weren't for those to things i'd say the hit reg is almost perfect.
LANs, ftw.