GoldenEye: Source Forums
Editing and Customization => Community Content => Topic started by: WatchMyTrace on September 25, 2009, 05:30:25 pm
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Recreating Grid from Perfect Dark, Tis started as a classic conversion but now ive decided to just make it a redo.
This is early WIP, lighting and most textures are still in working rough draft and i've just started playing around with including some props.
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t286/john1984h/grid070007.jpg)
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t286/john1984h/grid070000.jpg)
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t286/john1984h/grid070011.jpg)
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t286/john1984h/grid070008.jpg)
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t286/john1984h/grid070015.jpg)
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t286/john1984h/grid070002.jpg)
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t286/john1984h/grid070003.jpg)
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t286/john1984h/grid070004.jpg)
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t286/john1984h/grid070005.jpg)
This Is the first map ive ever done so its been quite the learning process.
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that´s awesome ! grid was one of my favourite levels in perfect dark . thank you very much for your work :D
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ZOMG KNEED LAPTAP GUNZ AN FARSITE
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Thats looking pretty dang good man.
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It sure looks good man... Which reminds me, I have to start doing something with Hammer...
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Yeah, I have been diggin this map since he started it. I get so excited when I see that he is in a new build that I just have to jump in and comment. :) Once again scoob, Nice job :D It only gets better from here dude. Can't wait to see the next build and help you find out some lighting issues (simple things that we can talk about later), clipping, and nodraw/texture suggestions. Overall though, it it is a pretty solid map :) Lovin' it!
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Been tweaking the lighting a bit more, included some player clip to keep people from getting hung up in certain areas, improved the look of the stairs. Elevator still needs tweaking (when i feel like getting around to it).
I really wanted to be able to put armor in the elevator because as it is now its just a deathtrap i could see people avoiding it at all costs if there was no real reason to take it. kraid suggested i include some kind of vent system between the two floors that could only be accessed through the elevator, but this idea raises a whole lot of new problems.
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Need my laptop gun(s) and my neutron bombs.
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The screenshots are looking very good! I can't wait to play in Grids.
The elevator is indeed a problem. :/ Hope you can get over it.
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Fixed problems with being able to open the elevator door while it was moving.
I'm trying to make it so that when the button is pressed and the elevator is called it will then automatically start moving in the opposite direction after a delay, so that when called you dont have to press the button again to get it moving.
As it stands I have the button set to the following in order to get it to come:
On pressed
Elevator
Start Forward
Ive tried adding an additonal output to the button:
On pressed
elevator
Start Reverse
delay of 14sec
It doesnt seem to be working, but i dont think it would be what i want anyway because if the button were presssed and the elevator was already there it would send it up then automatically back down.
I dont know if I'm making a whole lotta sense here lol.
What i need is something that goes like this:
On pressed
If elevator is up
Send Down
Then Back up After Delay of XX
and,
On Pressed
If elevator is down
Send up
Any Ides?
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at least you used rounded corners for the most part.
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at least you used rounded corners for the most part.
wtf sharp? What kind of response was that to his question dude hahahah Sorry trace, I can't help you but somebody is bound to know here. :)
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lol i didnt even read the question lol. I don't bother with elevators ever. Make the elevator static with the roof open with access to the elevator shaft via a ladder, problem solved.
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at least you used rounded corners for the most part.
um....... yeah
I don't really understand what you getting at
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How do i post a video like frenfam4life did for his Bunker map?
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Use fraps or something for quick capture.
Upload it to youtube and post the link.
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What is so hard to understand? You use round corners instead of blocks. I am saying good job on that because alot of new mappers love blocks.
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Latest Build,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yACL0mQgozs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yACL0mQgozs)
The props for the main room are just a idea i'm playing around with, i'd like to try doing something more in the theme of a hotel lobby but i don't have many props that work for that.
I was trying to get the video to appear right here on the forum.
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Masterfully done Scooby, you've made a lot of improvements/changes from the earlier Grid versions we played on. I'm really looking forward to trying it out.
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Hmm I like it, that will be a fun map :-)
Idea: Why don't you put the weapon / ammo spawn like you did for the armor only at the bottom position of the elevator. Embedding it into the wall was a great idea.
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Hmm I like it, that will be a fun map :-)
Idea: Why don't you put the weapon / ammo spawn like you did for the armor only at the bottom position of the elevator. Embedding it into the wall was a great idea.
I've been thinking about doing just that.
Play testing has shown that getting in and out of the elevator unscaved is not easy, I was often killed while waiting for it to arrive or attacked upon exiting, this would be a great location for the golden gun as well. I don't want to make it easier because this adds alot of challenge to the player, but also frustration.
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This map kicks ass, good job scooby
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My job will be taking me out of the country for a few months so im sorry to say that the project has to be put on hiatus for a while, however I've decided to release the map as a beta for all to enjoy in my absence. I understand this map is not quite at the stage of completion so please continue to post and comments or suggestions as i will get back to the map upon my return and eventually release a final version.
This has been my first map and quite the learning process i hope to continue mapping with hammer and to get better through experience. It's been a real treat to see such a enthusiastic response from what started as me just tinkering around with mapping and thank you for all your support, input and help (Big props to Kraid! I wouldn't have been able to make it work without him). I think I've come to really grasp the basics of hammer as well as dabble in some of the more advanced aspects of this amazing editing tool, i plan to continue mapping and further my skills.
I'm just happy to have contributed to the ges community (i love this mod!) keep up the good work guys. SO here for your enjoyment is Grid_SS_beta.
Faster URL:
http://wcservers.net/scoobysnacks/grid_SS_beta.bsp
http://www.filefront.com/14663797/grid_SS_beta.bsp (http://www.filefront.com/14663797/grid_SS_beta.bsp)
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I like it, but the rooms (especially the main room with the glass) should get much bigger
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I like it, but the rooms (especially the main room with the glass) should get much bigger
Yeah things get pretty crazy when the player count is up its chaos lol but I guess that's to be expected when converting a map that was made for 4 players max into a mod that supports 16. These are the issues that play testing will point out. I was thinking of making both the front and back areas much larger although that would be deveiating greatly from the original map.
Any devs out there that can tell me how they overcame this issue?
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There are basically five areas to fight in; you need a sixth badly (and maybe even a seventh). Also, spreading out the map a bit should help.
Take out this lame vent (Pic 1) and replace it with a door here (Pic 2) that leads back to another door here (Pic 3) through a couple hallways and maybe a little room.
(http://mookie.mksvx.com/pictures/grid_ss_beta0003.jpg)
(http://mookie.mksvx.com/pictures/grid_ss_beta0004.jpg)
(http://mookie.mksvx.com/pictures/grid_ss_beta0005.jpg)
Extend these two hallways, forcing the front and back areas further apart. Just recess the elevator in the back room instead of having it pop out; that can give you 128 units easily. You can also stretch these hallways a bit by making them open a little further along the front area.
(http://mookie.mksvx.com/pictures/grid_ss_beta0000.jpg)
(http://mookie.mksvx.com/pictures/grid_ss_beta0001.jpg)
A lot of your doorways are vertically-challenged, and they don't need to be as tight either. Try making your narrow doorways 64 instead of 48, and your wider ones 96 instead of 64.
(http://mookie.mksvx.com/pictures/grid_ss_beta0007.jpg)
(http://mookie.mksvx.com/pictures/grid_ss_beta0006.jpg)
Try replacing this junk with a row of pillars instead. More usable as cover, and should look nicer.
(http://mookie.mksvx.com/pictures/grid_ss_beta0002.jpg)
Missing texture here, looks like a gap in the brushwork there. Minor details and more relevant to something closer to release but why not.
(http://mookie.mksvx.com/pictures/grid_ss_beta0009.jpg)
(http://mookie.mksvx.com/pictures/grid_ss_beta0008.jpg)
Your pillars are fat and ugly. I realize this is pretty much the way it was in Perfect Dark. I'll refer you to Vitruvius' Ten Books on Architecture, specifically the part about temples. Broadly, make pillars six or seven times as tall as the width of their footprints, and make the gaps between them two to two and a half times their width. Two-thousand-year-old Hellenistic cruft? Maybe.
(http://mookie.mksvx.com/pictures/grid_ss_beta0010.jpg)
It looks like the height of your first floor walls is pretty uniformly just over 128. Working on the gridlines will make keeping your brushwork solid much easier. Making your walls 128 high instead of what looks like about 132 will make your texturing much easier.
(http://mookie.mksvx.com/pictures/grid_ss_beta0011.jpg)
Put doorframes on the transitions between areas, especially between hallways and the main rooms. They don't have to be big (4 units might be plenty, maybe a bit more down from the ceiling). With your doorframes in place, don't be afraid to vary the height of the ceiling from one area to another.
(http://mookie.mksvx.com/pictures/grid_ss_beta0012.jpg)
Smooth out this stairway a lot. The slope looks good at about 1:2 (but could probably safely go to 2:3 if needed). The steps are way too high though. 10 units would be the max IMO. A good reference from reality is that houses usually have 12-14 steps from one floor to another, other buildings could be 16-20 easily.
(http://mookie.mksvx.com/pictures/grid_ss_beta0013.jpg)
The elevator can get hung up because the doors and concrete are not flush. Try making them even if possible. Better would be to have a pair of doors parented to the elevator on the inside, and independent doors on the outside (just set both pair off with the same trigger).
It's tough to say to start something from scratch, but the whole map will need to be retextured at some point anyway. Pick (or create) a smooth, desaturated texture and texture the whole map with it so you can see what you really have with your brushwork and lighting.
As far as the lighting goes, take out (or disable) the lights that you have, and see what you can do with light_environment. Unless you're going to change to a daytime sky (or one with a moon), just disable the direct light and use the ambient. Get it to where you want it, then compile once with -final to see what it's going to look like. If the glass skylights in the back/main room let the light through, I think you could get about 2/3 of the map lit with ambient from the skybox. That's not to say don't use other lights in these areas, but just see what you can do with it; VRAD never fails to impress.
One problem with the lighting you have already is that it's very saturated in some areas. Try staying closer to white even when you want colored light.
The point/prop lights can be done a lot better. You did pretty well with the two posts out by the body armour. The rest not so much. First thing, forget about lightglows and spotlights until much later. Identify where you need some light, place your prop/texture, then cast light from it. Repeat. Just try to figure out what will fit best (aesthetically) in each area, and use as much of it as you need. Use a light entity for things like cagelights and bare bulbs. Use a light_spot for lights that are in some kind of fixture. Don't stick with the default values for light_spot, for something like fluorescent lights you want to make the inner/bright angle fairly large (60+) and the outer angle closer to 90. If you make these the right brightness, VRAD should bounce enough light back up off the floor to light the ceilings fine. Same goes for floodlights, although you'll probably want a tighter angle.
Personally I think that round light fixture you've used in a few places doesn't go well at all. Floodlights would definitely do well in the front/outdoor area. In areas where you have ceiling tiles, fluorescent light textures (like one that's in goldeneye already) are probably better than a prop. lights.rad controls how much light each texture casts.
This level calls for custom textures big-time. Some areas are OK, others are hideous. I'm thinking smooth concrete in the front, polished stone in the back, and clean, sharp textures like in de_nightfever in between. But that's just me.
I realize the tone of this post may seem a bit down; it isn't meant to be. This is way better than what I started out doing with Hammer.
Feel free to send me a later version if you want someone to look it over before release.
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Wow, mookie, great critisism! Thats exactly everything I would have pointed out as well. Although, 8 units is the normal stair height! other than that, I agree completely!
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Yeah 8 is what I'd usually do as well since it's easier to line up, but I've played around with 10 and it looks OK. Pretty usable if your floor-to-floor height is 160.
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Yeah 8 is what I'd usually do as well since it's easier to line up, but I've played around with 10 and it looks OK. Pretty usable if your floor-to-floor height is 160.
exactly, except usually USUALLY like yuo said its 128, which is why 8 works flawlessly.
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The original had a ramp rather than stairs I decided the stairs would look better but in order to match the dimensions of the ramp I had to make the steps a little larger than I would had liked to.
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You could devide the height of those stairs in half, and add twice as many stairs, it would be the same ratio and look a hell of a lot better!
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I apreciate the critisism it'll just make me a better mapper in the future its good to hear from people who actually know what there talking about. When I started this map I pretty much learned everthing as I went and I had no knowlage at all about what a proper door or ceiling height should be. I'll be sure to take all this input into account so I can start my next project using the right dimensions.
I'd have a few ideas for new areas I just wasn't sure about how much I wanted to change the original. It'll probably be quite a while untill I can work on the next build but I will get back to this map.
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You can always re-make the map now that you learned what you learned, but believe me, I am still learning things as I map, and each map gets better and better as I finish each. Proportions become second nature eventually.
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"My job will be taking me out of the country for a few months so im sorry to say that the project has to be put on hiatus for a while"
Till then, we'll enjoy this.
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Make sure to turn the monitors and every other little object which is a physic prop into prop_physic_multiplayer.
That way it won't collide with the player.