GoldenEye: Source Forums

Debriefing => Join Us => Topic started by: Goldenzen on May 18, 2009, 10:11:14 pm

Title: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: Goldenzen on May 18, 2009, 10:11:14 pm
Hello dear GE-Source guys,

I always have been a huge fan of Goldeneye and everything that has to do something with it.
Besides I am a huge fan of Eric Serra's music and I make music on my own.
I already did music for various German hobbyfilms, I did music for a radioshow here in Switzerland and I even made some music for a TV station once.
My secret and hidden passion always was making music in the dark and heavy style as heard in Goldeneye but also to improve it and make it a little bit more modern sounding, like adding good beats and electric instruments.
Recently I finally made a song coming very near to the GE universe (with all the remarkable sounds of Goldeneye like the "sonar" sound or the deep and heavy huumm-sounds), friends of mine and I had the idea to make this music public and I would love to make my contribution to this game and finally fulfill my dream of making Goldeneye music for something serious.

I hope there`s a way to send you this piece of music, or please give me the permission to upload it or post the Link to the file.
The reason I don`t want to post without your permission is, I don`t want anyone to get in trouble just because I shared a song with the bond pattern in it.

If you would like to hear anything else from me please visit my page: www.yanzen-solutions.ch

Contact me via: ranzen_13@hotmail.com (that`s also my MSN, feel free to add me)

My Programs are: Cubase 5, Sampletank 2.5 XL, EWQL Symphonic Orchestra Gold, EWQL Colossus

I would really be gratefull if could take my application seriously and I would love to work together with you guys and make this mod as good as it gets :)

Cheers,

Yannick
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: JcFerggy on May 18, 2009, 10:40:22 pm
Please give a link to the file, because we can't consider anything without seeing it :D.
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: ExtraNoise on May 19, 2009, 02:44:01 am
I really liked the music on your website. Great work! Has a great Hans Zimmer feel to it.
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: jjmusicnotes on May 19, 2009, 03:31:17 am
Here is what the textbook no-fun side of me sez:

The music on your website contained some nice original ideas.  The instrumentation corresponded well with the intended atmosphere.

While the motifs were interesting, the pieces I thought were characteristically too repetitive - lacking movement.  I noticed this in melody, harmony, and form.  If that is what you intended, then you have met your mark. 

However, in spite of mirroring the melodic motifs through varying groups of instruments, and the addition of the electronic bells and whistles, the music presented should probably be considered for further revision.

Here is what regular me sez:

I really don't want to come off as mean.  Overall, I like it, it's just that I think that you could dazzle some more spice into it - add color and life, because right now, it sounds a bit copied and pasted.

You've got a good start, but I would definitely go back and see where elements may be improved.
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: Wake[of]theBunT on May 19, 2009, 03:50:58 am
We have about 4 people able to do the range of styles on this project already. Of course that doesnt mean all the music is done, classic remakes are far from done. 2 are done, almost 3 of the 20something needed.

If you DO classic remixes of goldeneye first and apply with those, then we see how good you are at that - it would be the quickest way to actually helping the mod, as opposed to being brought on as a music artist because you have talent from unrelated projects. We want results, not another talented artist - is my harsh point made.
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: killermonkey on May 19, 2009, 04:18:49 am
Listening to your works reminds me of when I used to listen to old school Metallica songs played out on MIDI (back in 1997). They had the beats and the melodies, but they lacked the background effect, punch, and overall atmosphere required of Metallica (not to mention the killer riffs and vocals).

You would have to capture the MOOD of the level / game in order to truly succeed amongst our current sound artists. Listen to their music and do a side by side comparison to yours, you will hear what I mean. The music is there to engage the player, not to just be in the background to drown out some other shitty sound effects.
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: Sole Signal [Audix] on May 19, 2009, 04:58:09 am
Go ahead and post this Goldeneye track you speak of to give us a sense of your feel for the Goldeneye mood. Writing music for Goldeneye is very different from writing in the style of today's epic shooters as your music seems to tend toward (COD, Halo, Rainbow Six, etc).

I did listen to several of your tracks, and noticed a wide range of apparent skill. "The CBD Commando Theme" was very good with an obvious grasp of samples, whereas others were noticeably weak (such as the "Fight on the Edge" - those machine gun marcato strings need some work). I might recommend purging some of your older works from your page as you continue looking for new projects, as they might actually work against you. Better to have three or four killer tracks up for people to listen to than ten with several so-so ones mixed in.
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: Goldenzen on May 19, 2009, 06:21:50 am
Hello guys,

wow thank you very much for all the comments, I really appreciate it. You are absolutely right, the big range of quality in my pieces commes from the fact that some of them are a bit older. I am going to delete some. The CBD stuff is quite new actually, and meanwhile I have even better programs.

Here`s the Goldeneye track, hope you`ll like it:

http://www.yanzen-solutions.ch/The_GE_Walkthrough.MP3

Greets,

Yannick
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: VC on May 19, 2009, 11:01:14 am
Quote from: killermonkey on May 19, 2009, 04:18:49 am
I used to listen to old school Metallica songs played out on MIDI
Hear that? That's Lars hopping into the Justicemobile, coming to break your kneecaps for soundcrime.
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: Goldenzen on May 19, 2009, 12:58:12 pm
shall I delete the link ? Was that comment for me ?
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: Wake[of]theBunT on May 19, 2009, 05:14:36 pm
Ignore vc, it was a metallica joke directed at killermonkey, see the quote he posted? Nothing to do with your music, he went off topic.

.........................................
Now a refined word from me, I finally get your intention now that ive heard this sample track.....you want to make your own movie SCORE in the style of GoldenEye but more friendly to videogame music? Pretty neat if thats so because you REALLY stay close to serra's style.

The one thing to note is your arrangement is a little too messy, and its not mastered well at this point.

My final question, are you planning to be doing original eric serra score style for our levels, or taking each levels arrangement from the GAME and tailoring it to an eric serra score style with your samples. Thats the only thing i cant work out :P
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: mookie on May 19, 2009, 05:23:49 pm
No, it was a subtle anti-anti-piracy dig.

Just listened to the GE one and to me it sounds off. The sound effects are all over the place, they feel scattered, everything seems to be off the beat like a junior high school band, and there doesn't really seem to be a melody beyond the normal four-note 007 theme.

I really liked CBD even though the style doesn't really fit what's already been done for GES. The only weird thing about it (for me) is it sounds a lot like Kiss Him Goodbye.
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: Goldenzen on May 19, 2009, 06:29:22 pm
Hi there,

thanks again for your comments. This song was just an example to show what is possible. I can try and work out more complex song structures and look for the song to be a little more less messy as some of you described.

@wakeofthebunt: Yeah ! That is absolutely my intention. I like Serra's style but also the GE game music (still got the music on my MP3 player ). I want to get beat and the rhythmic of the GE game, the dark style of Serra and a good load of my artwork to make it special.

To be very honest I would like to do my own tracks, but if you need me for something else we sure can talk about that.
Could you please also describe what you mean with the "bad mastered" thing ? How could I do it better ?

If you like we could get in touch or talk about an "auditioning piece": I do a piece of music you could need, with some of your instructions. Together with your great hints I am sure we can work out some good tracks.

Thanks and cheers,

Yannick
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: jjmusicnotes on May 19, 2009, 06:55:07 pm
Complex structures only work if the smaller components compliment one another, and facilitate larger sections, if not the entirety of the piece itself.  There's no point in putting a fugue in the middle of an expanded rondo from if it doesn't make any sense.

If there's one lesson I've learned, it's that simplicity is unmistakable - in more ways than one.

If the orchestration, harmonic, rhythmic, and melodic motion are intricate, concise, well arranged and implemented, then the form can be very simple.

I would recommend not only listening, but studying the work done so far - it will give insight into motion (the "plot line,") provide ideas for variations of the motifs, and illustrate examples for how to foster continuity between musical concepts and ideas into a manifestation through sound.
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: Jonathon [SSL] on May 19, 2009, 07:34:13 pm
I personally liked the overall sound his track, it reminded me (a lot) of my favorite part of Eric Serra's GE Movie soundtrack, "The Goldeneye Overture", with the background ambient noise, the strings playing the bond theme, and the timpani (I think that's the name of it) playing a steady beat in the background. Also, it's much different than anything I've heard from Basstronix or Audix, in that it has a much darker sound very reminiscent of the movie.

Only complaint is the seemingly random bits here in there, kinda like what mookie said.

(Examples: the seemingly random background sound effects at 0:51, 1:00, 1:22, especially 1:34, and 1:41, and the like.)
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: Goldenzen on May 19, 2009, 07:52:31 pm
Thanks SSL, I`ll check that out and maybe delete it.

I will work it over once and carefully place all the effects. Post it later.

Greets
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: Goldenzen on May 19, 2009, 09:02:48 pm
Hello dear GE guys,

second attempt of the GE track, here:

http://www.yanzen-solutions.ch/The_GE_Walkthrough2.MP3

Please feel free to mention more things to improve. I am grateful for any kind of critic.

If you`d like to hear something in that GE style exactly for the game, please feel free to ask. You can also add and talk to me if you`re interested

sincerely,
Yannick
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: Jonathon [SSL] on May 19, 2009, 09:36:16 pm
There's something off at 1:02, 1:12, 1:38, 1:49, and most of the other places where the four-note bond theme is, I think you're either getting off too late or too early on the last note, but I can't tell exactly. Also, at 2:18, the background sound effect sounds out of place where a new phrase in the music is starting.

In general, try to avoid placing the background sound effects directly on beats, and not where other instruments are changing notes, just during the long chords (That seems to be how Serra and Greame Norgate did it).

Also, if any devs think I'm saying too much, just let me know, I just really like this kind of GE song, which is why I'm giving my crits.  :D
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: Goldenzen on May 19, 2009, 09:41:48 pm
This "thing" you`re saying is off, is the Timpani. But I can`t help it, it sounds in place for me. Anyway I`ll try to fix this.

If you still got the patience :)
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: Jonathon [SSL] on May 19, 2009, 09:46:18 pm
Quote from: Goldenzen on May 19, 2009, 09:41:48 pm
This "thing" you`re saying is off, is the Timpani. But I can`t help it, it sounds in place for me. Anyway I`ll try to fix this.

I meant the strings that are playing the Bond theme, and the fourth note of the Bond theme being off.
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: Goldenzen on May 19, 2009, 10:58:32 pm
OK, SSL thanks for the hints, here`s attempt Nr.3, hope you and the team likes it:

http://www.yanzen-solutions.ch/The_GE_Walkthrough3.MP3

I did the whole thing a bit more straight, some more "highlights" and changed some instruments. I also added an E-Guitar in the second half

Thanks guys for your attention.

Greets
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: JcFerggy on May 19, 2009, 11:23:40 pm
It sounds good, but I don't like it how it does not have a definitive tune to it, and there is no instrument taking the lead. Like in Facility you can easily play it back in your head as *bomp bomp, shhhhish, naaa na naa etc...*

Maybe not the best criticism, but that is just what I think.
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: Goldenzen on May 19, 2009, 11:34:52 pm
That`s absolutely right. But if you listen to Goldeneye soundtrack it`s likely not to have a strong instrument taking over. For example in the Goldeneye overtoure; besides the timpani, a upcomming distorted bass and some Organ there is no real lead to it.

But that could also be a reason for critics to Serra`s score.

Greets
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: Sole Signal [Audix] on May 19, 2009, 11:40:35 pm
You did a great job of recreating the feel of the GE filmscore (though I like it better without that guitar), but it doesn't match the game's musical structure or style. As is, this wouldn't be included in the official game release. However, you are more than welcome to create a songpack of your own that we could link to and then be switched in at gamers' leisure.
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: jjmusicnotes on May 20, 2009, 02:37:13 am
Quote from: The SSL on May 19, 2009, 09:46:18 pm
I meant the strings that are playing the Bond theme, and the fourth note of the Bond theme being off.


What's throwing you off is that the strings are changing chords early by half a beat, rather than changing on the downbeat of the following measure.

To me it still sounds like all you did was copied pasted 4 measures over and over again; is anyone with me on this?
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: killermonkey on May 20, 2009, 02:39:48 am
Dude, I take back what I said previously! #3 hits it on the spot compared to the previous versions you did. I am actually quite impressed :)

This music is dark, gloomy, bondish in the background, and would go great for an epicly large level such as Surface, streets, etc.

Keep working on it, I bet it is bound to make our next OST :)
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: Sole Signal [Audix] on May 20, 2009, 02:43:46 am
I was a bit hasty in my previous assessment of this. I let it loop about five times and I think that KM's mention of Streets is dead on. This track sounds very "urban" and the atmosphere would fit very well.

What's your goal with this, Goldenzen? Do you wish to be part of the team or just contribute a few tracks?
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: Goldenzen on May 20, 2009, 06:35:50 am
I would LOVE to be part of your team, I think it would be the greatest thing to work together. I also see what you mean when you`re saying it doesn`t fit the structure of the game; I`ve listened to some of your tracks and heard that they are very god, very fast and with a big load of action. My style is more good ol` Goldeneye style - I see the "conflict" there.

But if you give me a chance and think there are some tracks i could work on together with you this would be awesome.

Sincerely,

Yannick
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: CCsaint10 on May 20, 2009, 06:47:34 am
To be completely honest, it seems too simple to me. The reason I like audix's and bass's music is it has so much complexity to it and not just the basic bond theme in the back. The third track definitely changes a lot more than the original, which is good. However, the quality of the instruments seems very low also compared to bass's and audix. I think it would be a huge contrast to put this with audix and bass's music....but, again, it is up to everyone else I guess...frankly...not enough complexity and it has the same drum/bass beat....kind of gets old hearing it by the end IMO
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: Goldenzen on May 20, 2009, 07:08:02 am
Thanks CCSaint, I understand what you mean although I have an other point of view:
The lack of complexity is a weakpoint I can work on. The problem is: I don`t yet see to invest that much time in a track I couldn`t share with anyone, you know the problem is: I can invest hours and hours in this track to make it better, but what`s the point of it, if I can`t release it. I had so much bad experiences in making work, especially music that took me weeks and then the producer said: "No we rather not want this".
Now I`ve seen this possibility with the GE Mod, I already invested several hours in improving GE Walkthrough and you already see progress :)

Another point is again; if you listen to old Goldeneye tracks, they are simple: There are no big highlights or as David Arnold calls it "Swing Thing". And especially not in Norgates soundtrack. Although there`s a bit more complexity coming from changing instruments and sounds.

I did it in a long loop the be suitable for a level. And the weak instruments are chosen to fit the old, rusty and dark Russian SSSR style, you know heavy, dark, mechanical...
If you read my programs that are used you can see I don`t use old or cheap programs.

And please remind: This is just a track to show what could be possible and to show the atmosphere it has to it. If I could do it for something with a goal, of course I`d take more time.

I hope you see what I try to say, I am not trying to negate your critics, I am thankful but I want to make you see my point of view.

Sincerely,

Yannick
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: jjmusicnotes on May 20, 2009, 07:56:47 pm
I see your point of view, and I'm glad that you chose an instrumentation appropriate to define a certain type of atmosphere.

**side note: how do jingle bells fit with the SSSR?**

Unfortunately, I don't agree with your reasoning that there's no point in making something "complex" unless it's going to be used for something.

If nothing else, you should do it for the improvement of your compositional style, the love of your craft, and for practice - so that you know that you're confident in doing it when it is required, instead of just telling us that you can and then only making a moderate amount of adjustments.

I believe Killermonkey had this to say in a different thread:

"We are not interested in hearing about wasting time, if you even knew how much time I wasted coding this mod by writing thousands of lines of code only to have to rewrite it all over again because it wasn't efficient or needed to be more robust you would cry. Or how many models I have made and how many times I reweighed characters after someone already did it because it needed to be IMPROVED."

One of the tricks to composing is knowing the audience you are writing for.  It seems as though the purpose or "audience" of your music would typically be ambiance for a single-player level - while bond is sneaking around and cappin' those lovable inept guards.

The audience that bass and Audix are writing for is an audience of DM-online-carnage-auto shotgun in the face- err'body get's owned (by vc) mayhem.  Intense gameplay must be complimented with intense music, (unless of course you're writing it to be specifically ironic such that when someone dies it feels like Saving Private Ryan -> Adagio for Strings (Agnus Dei Op. #24) - Samuel Barber.)

Atmospheric music does not have to be ethereal and slow, it illustrates a mood.  The mood of your music should meet the rigors and demands of your audience, which for the purpose of this game, is duel-action: the purpose of online play, and the people between the ears listening.
   
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: Goldenzen on May 20, 2009, 08:18:51 pm
I see you and agree. I think I made a wrong point there telling you making music with no sense is useless, that was not my intention to sound like.
To be honest, most of the music I do, is for myself and it`s not used, although I`d like to be able to make it work out for somebody. My HD crashed many times and I`ve lost all my song projects.

But you are right when you say the audience needs to have a music suitable for the hasty levels and missions.

Notice: I am already working on a new track, will take me some time, but I think maybe it`ll be a good mix of hasty and Goldy although I don`t want to change it too much, because for music in style like in the game we already have some great guys doing a great job, I`d like to bring in something "new" so everyone can benefit.

Greets
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: Wake[of]theBunT on May 20, 2009, 08:55:06 pm
Guys, seriously, watch the movie goldeneye for the score itself. Then come back and listen to his track, hes really quite particular about his samples and they are correct to his goal - and that goal shouldnt be dismissed just because any of us doesnt think it will work in a videogame. I would like him to at least trial and complete one single track tailored to fit to a current beta 3.1 level in his current approach.

Goldenzen it would be an official excercise for the team, may take a month of your spare time to refine a composition to our standards and where it would have a place to release as alternative tracks, but if you are willing for the effort why not? regardless you could attach it to your ever growing resume as one of your key pieces.

up to audix on what ive said though. :D he has final say here.
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: Goldenzen on May 20, 2009, 09:00:21 pm
Guys, I will do my best. My time is yours, I am dreaming for this since a while, I`ll take my time don`t you worry :)

Many thanks
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: Goldenzen on May 20, 2009, 11:56:25 pm
Hello GES`s

I had a little conversation with SSL and he helped me out with some details in the piece and we improved it, like string beat, some effects that were off and some parts.

Thanks again SSL, your help was great.

Hope you like the result

http://www.yanzen-solutions.ch/The_GE_overworked.MP3

Greets
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: killermonkey on May 21, 2009, 01:38:14 am
Dude, I'll repeat myself. This latest iteration is awesome! I love your music style. This would fit perfectly into a single player mission such as Surface or Streets. With a little more speed, development in the middle this could become a great multiplayer track, but as it stands its too slow for our gameplay.

Great work!
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: Goldenzen on May 21, 2009, 09:11:57 pm
Hello dear GES guys,

I did a track especially for you. I tried to work on it, having all the critics in my mind. It`s a fast one this time (110 BPM).

I also tried to do a good mix between Norgate, Serra and myself, hope you`ll like it:

http://www.yanzen-solutions.ch/The_Fast_GE.MP3

Here are four other songs I`d like to share with you, not GE but a trailer song:

http://www.yanzen-solutions.ch/The_Zombie_God.MP3

...some chillout sound:

http://www.yanzen-solutions.ch/The_beautiful_sunset.MP3

...some swing:

http://www.yanzen-solutions.ch/The_belly_rumble.MP3

...and some rocknroll

http://www.yanzen-solutions.ch/The_bold_road.MP3

Thanks and cheers,

Yannick
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: CCsaint10 on May 22, 2009, 07:38:32 am
Quote from: Wake[of]theBunT on May 20, 2009, 08:55:06 pm
Guys, seriously, watch the movie goldeneye for the score itself. Then come back and listen to his track, hes really quite particular about his samples and they are correct to his goal - and that goal shouldnt be dismissed just because any of us doesnt think it will work in a videogame. I would like him to at least trial and complete one single track tailored to fit to a current beta 3.1 level in his current approach.

Goldenzen it would be an official excercise for the team, may take a month of your spare time to refine a composition to our standards and where it would have a place to release as alternative tracks, but if you are willing for the effort why not? regardless you could attach it to your ever growing resume as one of your key pieces.

up to audix on what ive said though. :D he has final say here.


When it comes to the original movie wake, you are correct in his style. However, it still stands that the music was too slow and doesn't fit in the similar style of the other ones we have in the GAME. (I haven't listened to the new tracks yet you just posted, so don't apply this comment to those) The biggest thing I don't like about your GE_overworked...is the goldeneye theme is CONSISTENTLY the same the WHOLE song. It doesn't change at all. Everything around it changes, and it goes up a couple steps occasionally, but I frankly get sick of hearing the same theme throughout the whole song without any deviation to the THEME itself.

Please understand that I DO NOT HATE your music. I am just expressing how i feel about it, it is rather quite good, however I do hear instruments still that I belief sound too much like midi files in that last track you made.....I throw up when I hear midis. :)

Zombie god background accompaniment sounds very cheap sounding....like a midi...the brass sound good. See, I don't get it, certain instruments sound great in your songs, others just make me want to hurl when I hear them cause they sound like a really bad midi file. :(
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: Goldenzen on May 22, 2009, 10:05:10 am
Dear CCsaint,

first: thanks for listening and evaluating my songs. I absolutely like and need critics, I think they`re something like the engine for (good) music.
But if you just write "some of your instruments sound bad" this is no useful critics for me. See, I don`t know what you`re talking about and what you dislike particularly.
Also notice: This is just a 40 sec. extract, that`s why I think you seem the here the same stuff over and over again, and those 40 secs are meant to give an impression of the feeling. This song is far away from being completed but I want to make it able for you to see what it could be like and to make clear I really want this.

I am at work right now but when I am home I`ll work on it, giving it some more highlights, variety and tunes. Thus make it longer.
If you wouldn`t mind telling me what sounds annoying or what sounds midi-like to you, I can work on that as well.

Sincerely,

Yannick

Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: jjmusicnotes on May 22, 2009, 02:42:27 pm
Here are the first 40 seconds from a Fuga I wrote:

http://www.4shared.com/file/107046668/8ade20c7/Fuga_in_Dm.html

(It makes use of Baroque counterpoint and a harpsichord, so it's going to sound dated by about 4-500 years.  :P )

I'm demonstrating that it shouldn't take the listener 15 minutes of listening before they hear something interesting.  If you're only going to give us 40 seconds, then it should be the most mind-melting espionage-sneaking bond-women seducing thing you can come up with.

Here is some constructive criticism and suggestions:

- Learn about musical forms (wikipedia can be very helpful.)

- Write music through those forms.

- Study and analyze music; why it sounds the way it does - what makes it "work."

- Put tons of time into pieces that no one's going to hear - because when the time comes for someone to really listen, you'll be confident in what you do.

- Expensive soundfonts and programs don't make a good composer, time behind the music does, and a love for the craft - for the pure sake of doing it, not just so that people can listen.

- I think that the reason behind the consistency of the simplicity and repetitive nature of the music presented here lies within a combination of a lack on knowledge and experience.

- I'm really not trying to be mean, but realistic; as I understand it, music is a hobby for you, something you've always done on the side.  Although you have learned much about programs and sounds from fiddling around - fiddling will only get you so far.

- Just because you want to try out for this team, or work with them - no matter how badly, doesn't mean that it will happen.  I would absolutely love to work on the music with Audix and bass, however, my classical style isn't the direction that they're going with, and so, it's not going to happen.  (I have a feeling that if I had EWQL and a registered version of FL Studio, I'd have a much better opportunity. *sigh*)

- I tell you all this from one musician to another, to save you time and energy, and to put things in focus for you.

Bottom Line:

I think that your fancy equipment exceeds your knowledge and experience in the craft of music composition, and you need more time and understanding before you market yourself.

This is just my opinion though, and as Audix does most definitely have the final word.




@ CCsaint10 - It's very hard to make soundfonts sound realistic.  The brass sounds nice because it's all in unison, and you can't here the blend of the timbre that you would hear otherwise if properly orchestrated.  The brass also sounds nice because you're only hearing "punches" which are short, if they were sustained or driven through fast passages, it would sound mechanical.  Similar issues occur with woodwinds - mechanical and nasily.  Through fast passages for stringed instruments, the notes tend to "smoosh" together and can come across as a glissando.

Although impressive, the biggest issue with soundfonts (no matter how expensive) is that they're not real people.
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: Goldenzen on May 22, 2009, 03:38:50 pm
You really understood me wrong there. I surely don`t wanna make music just for audience, and I took that sentence of mine back already.
As a matter of fact, I have about 30 Projects on my PC which I am constantly working on and never going to be public, they are just for myself, exercises, you know (I do music since about 6 years)

And the fact that it took me about 5 years just to build up a Serra style instrument library with all the humms and gongs and god knows what else, which people don`t even hear, unless I tell them to listen closely, should show you that I don`t just want to make music for it`s sake and as fast as I can.

But I give you right there: It is just a hobby for me, but a hobby I put a lot of time and effort in.

One more thing: I worked about 3 years with a cheap keyboard + software to make music. I didn`t start off with all them fancy music progs. like you`re trying to understate.

Sorry if I understood you wrong, I don`t want to be mean too, I really appreciate your critics and suggestions. But there are some things you said I can`t just let be ;)

Thanks and cheers,

Yannick
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: Sole Signal [Audix] on May 22, 2009, 09:49:28 pm
You nailed the GE movie feel, but we have to remember that most of that soundtrack would not be applicable for GE: Source as we are envisioning it. However, I/we are certainly open to different styles of music for our mod and have no problems with your samples, as the dark/grungy nature certainly applies to a few maps.

The thing hanging me up is that "GE: Overworked" and "The Fast GE" don't really sound like GoldenEye multiplayer gaming. You have more of a minimal style in these two tracks, with the music serving as atmosphere rather than to peak foreground interest. I do think that GE: Overworked could fit very well in a future Streets singleplayer map, though. Remember that faster tempo alone doesn't necessarily translate to become more suitable for deathmatch style gaming.

"The Fast GE" relies too heavily on the standard 4 note Bond progression, simply repeating over and over. Something that made the GoldenEye: 007 soundtrack so great is the multitude of ways that Graeme Norgate and Grant Kirkhope expanded on the Bond themes. It could be argued that the soundtrack would probably have been done differently in the more minimalist feel of shooters today (somewhat how your track previews sound). However, the strong emphasis on melody was necessary for the time and sound quality restrictions of the time. That's what we are trying to recreate with our soundtrack. Bass and I build from each level's original score and put our own twist onto it.

I propose the possibility of you creating a few alternate tracks marketed under the "old-school GoldenEye film style" premise. This may expand or contract over time depending on how proactive Bass and I are on completing new tracks. Give me a few days to assess where we are with the soundtrack and upcoming maps and see which tracks could use alternate versions.
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: Goldenzen on May 22, 2009, 09:57:19 pm
Dear Audix,

thanks. I absolutely agree with what you`re saying. I think it wouldn`t be bad if we get in touch, because I have some deeper questions about this mentioned plan of releasing alternate tracks.
And I think even though my songs are not going to be used officially, I could sure share my sound library with you GES musicians.

Would that be ok for you ?

Greets
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: CCsaint10 on May 24, 2009, 04:20:43 am
Nicely said audix.  You described what I was trying to say very well. I do think you have potential. THe biggest pet peeve I have is the same repeating part of a song over and over again. (as audix said).  THe greatest thing about audix and bass's songs is I never know what is coming. All of a sudden, some crazy bass part busts out, or really crazy crechendo with all the intruments performing. For some reason, I never hear cheesy instruments in their music. I can't really give you any reason of why that would be, but I can for sure go through a new piece if you post one and give you the exact spots that  Ifeel need to be fixed or changed to sound better. Good luck man.

Saint

(PS) if you haven't noticed, I am an audiofile also, so we all got that in common.
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: Goldenzen on May 24, 2009, 07:08:13 am
Hi guys,

thank you. I agree with you. I`ll listen to some Norgate soundtrack to get some ideas also of variation.

I know what you mean with lack of variety, I`ll try to improve it.

We`ll work it out :)

Greets
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: Rodney 1.666 on May 24, 2009, 07:24:25 am
Just want to say that I <3 the GoldenEye score, and this work nails it well.

Bump the man to trial, kthxbai.
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: jjmusicnotes on May 27, 2009, 01:37:36 am
I just wanted to apologize to Goldenzen for the way a couple of my posts may have come across.

If I came across sounding like a jerk or condescending, I'm really sorry.  My only intention is to help you become better at doing something that you love to do.

I've just had a real rough couple of weeks, and I may have unfairly brought things here - so if I offended you, or anyone else, I apologize.
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: Goldenzen on May 28, 2009, 09:24:58 am
Thanks jj, I appreciate it.

Some of your critics were very good for me but some were a bit hard though :)

Thanks for helping.

Greets
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: Daisy-Fan on May 28, 2009, 08:38:46 pm
OST On the movie was just good.
That Goldenzen was a good example.

Daisy-Fan
Title: Re: Music (genuine GE Style)
Post by: Sole Signal [Audix] on June 02, 2009, 07:34:39 pm
Leads, bump this good sir to trial.