GoldenEye: Source Forums

Global Communications => Development Media => Topic started by: VC on November 20, 2008, 12:36:08 am

Title: VC's Laboratory 81119
Post by: VC on November 20, 2008, 12:36:08 am: Still a couple small things to work out on the code side, but here's the list of weapons I have scripted and a few notes.

White means I'm done with it unless I have a typo or something tests out as broken.
Orange means I haven't done much/anything with it.
Red means there is a problem with the weapon.

#1 Slap
#2 Hunting Knife
These melee attacks will be tuned through playtesting. Traditional damage doesn't exactly work with Source hitboxes and the effectiveness of melee is different on PC, so instead of normal zone damage, I've set a custom damage/hitbox pattern.
#3 Throwing Knife
I haven't tested if the hitbox damage scaling actually functions or not; this statement applies to melee as well.

#4 PP7
#5 PP7-S
#6 DD44
All pistols are receiving a 40% accuracy nerf to compensate for the ease of accurate aiming on mouse/keyboard.

#7 Klobb
Still sucks.
#8 KF7
Proper burst-fire is not yet implemented.
#9 ZMG 9mm
#10 D5K
#11 D5K-S
Doesn't exist (yet) because the mythical ZMG-S has been sitting in D5K-S's slot.
#12 Phantom
#13 AR-33
Proper burst-fire is not yet implemented.
#14 RCP-90

#15 Rocksalt Shotgun
#16 Assault Shotgun

#17 Bishop Sniper Rifle
150% of traditional damage. Adjustable scope is not implemented. It should run from 90Â° to 10.5Â°, I'll probably park it around the 20's.
#18 Cougar Magnum
All pistols are receiving a 40% accuracy nerf to compensate for the ease of accurate aiming on mouse/keyboard. But CMag is almost a rail anyway.
#19 Golden Gun
#20 Silver PP7
#21 Gold PP7
To make Gold PP7 viable in multiplayer as a special premium weapon, I am breaking it from canon. Its damage base is now 200 instead of 5000.
#22 Military Laser

Weapons not listed, such as explosives, are still on Beta 2/whatever specs. They will be tuned once gunplay is rubberstamped.

I will test these myself this evening and hopefully get them on SVN tonight.
Title: Re: VC's Laboratory 81119
Post by: mbsurfer on November 20, 2008, 12:55:09 am: Nice progress VC! You have come a long way ;)
Title: Re: VC's Laboratory 81119
Post by: Doc.NO on November 20, 2008, 02:19:57 am: Quote from: Viashino Cutthroat on November 20, 2008, 12:36:08 am
#7 Klobb
Still sucks.
Title: Re: VC's Laboratory 81119
Post by: VC on November 20, 2008, 02:30:16 am: Quote from: Doc.NO on November 20, 2008, 02:19:57 am
Quote from: Viashino Cutthroat on Today at 11:36:08 AM
#7 Klobb
Still sucks.
(http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/4715/kssld2.jpg)
Title: Re: VC's Laboratory 81119
Post by: VC on November 20, 2008, 04:10:08 am: SVN isn't nice to me so I've sent the scripts to #S.

Buntypoo, once he uploads them, you're on. In particular, test out melee and see if they are just-right or if they need a tweak.

Some monster added gravity to throwing knives. The era of the epic 100-yard knife to the face of the golden gun guy has closed. :(
I had so much fun at that moment.
Title: Re: VC's Laboratory 81119
Post by: Doc.NO on November 20, 2008, 04:22:32 am: ya have tweaked TK? should hold them onmousedown and fire them onmouseup (atm, you fire them onmouseodwn :/).
Title: Re: VC's Laboratory 81119
Post by: killermonkey on November 20, 2008, 06:00:46 am: What monster added Gravity? Would it be the big bad meanie programmer guy? Oh thats right, we live in a physical world and so does Bond and his throwing knifes! :-*

EDIT:

Feedback on new scripts...

1. Cougar and Shotgun (pump) shoot WAY too fast
2. Sniper zooms in too far (can see it in top left)
3. Cougar's view punch should remain like it was, the weapon seems too weak now
4. AR33 seems a tad fast

Otherwise I love the rest, D5k is canon speed and the RCP90 is hot with the new sound. Great job mate!
Title: Re: VC's Laboratory 81119
Post by: CCsaint10 on November 20, 2008, 07:45:36 pm: Judging on this post, I am assuming Military laser and Phantom are both in the game and functioning???? If so, that is pretty sweet. :) Hopefully more explosive or projectiles start to begin piling in before release. :)
Title: Re: VC's Laboratory 81119
Post by: Doc.NO on November 20, 2008, 08:45:08 pm: Quote from: killermonkey on November 20, 2008, 06:00:46 am
1. Cougar and Shotgun (pump) shoot WAY too fast
2. Sniper zooms in too far (can see it in top left)
4. AR33 seems a tad fast
knives shoot too fast as well.

Also, KF7 & AR33 should fire at least 3 ammo (and not one like atm) with a quick shot.
Title: Re: VC's Laboratory 81119
Post by: VC on November 20, 2008, 08:54:18 pm: Except that in corny spy movies, throwing knives work at any range, have no gravity, and always strike tip-first. MAGIC!

1) Weapon timing is canonical for CMag. Shotguns are timed to the maximal firing rate when tapping the trigger. They fire more slowly if you hold the button down in GE007, but rof/c_rof is/was not working for Shotguns so I timed them for the tapping rate. (If you fixed it, it wasn't fixed on automatics because I tested it on ZMG and c_rof was ignored) As for rocksalt, it looks like a pump shotgun but you never operate the pump action in Goldeneye, likely because it was too complicated to be implemented. That's why I started labeling them rocksalt and assault recently -- the only difference between the two is the power level and that the multiplayer auto shotty is slightly more accurate. And for that reason, penalising its rof would be like making Klobb take 5 round magazines.
2) Can the viewmodel on Bishop vanish after the fov gets under a threshold? That should make it stop being rendered when it slides out of view, preventing it from peeking. Which would be good since eventually that babe needs a sliding zoom to 10.5 degrees. Also regarding zooming, the time is always the same even if the view is already partially zoomed, for example, if I zoom in to 20 degrees, let it out to 40, it takes the full zoom period to go from 40 to 20 again rather than (40-20)/(90-20) * zoomtime.
3) There is ZERO view punch in Goldeneye 007; adding any at all is window dressing and what's the point of a powerful gun if you can't use the damned thing? I'll hear the beta tester's impressions of whether or not it looks right, they might want it removed altogether. My main line of thought was it's supposed to be a magnum, not an anti-aircraft gun, and that the one-handed shotguns should feature the wildest kickin'.
4) AR33, along with ZMG and RCP90 have weird fire rates because of how the GE007 rof changes over time. They all start at a high rate and slow down a bit. For now I've parked them at 0.078, which is where they start at. Fortunately, because of invuln effects, rof isn't critical for the submachine guns -- it just determines how long you can hold the trigger in a panic and how densely you can spam a hallway. And how quickly your accuracy takes a dive. :D

Phantom is operating though I think it's still lacking unique sounds. Moonraker sorta vanished for some reason, maybe there's a bug in it, but I did write a script for it.

Re: Burst fire.
The way it works is you always fire a number divisible by three, not just at-least three. So if you fire four rounds, firing doesn't stop until the sixth is fired or you empty the magazine.
Title: Re: VC's Laboratory 81119
Post by: killermonkey on November 20, 2008, 10:23:56 pm: Zoom time is fixed, nice catch. Reload zoom out is smooth now as well instead of instant zoom out.
Title: Re: VC's Laboratory 81119
Post by: Wake[of]theBunT on November 21, 2008, 12:02:22 am: Whats the need for a developer forum when you can just discuss back and forth in a public blog. I think you are giving scott a hardon.

since he at one point was talking seriously about outsourcing major development tasks to the public

Anyhow, viewing public, we are testing all of these implementations as a means of giving you a more goldeneye experience. In an official update we will try to give you a sense of the progress without complex threads with often differing opinions like this :D Good day to you
Title: Re: VC's Laboratory 81119
Post by: killermonkey on November 21, 2008, 12:15:04 am: Meh, I think our fans get hard ons when they see progress ;-)
Title: Re: VC's Laboratory 81119
Post by: Sergeant Kelly on November 21, 2008, 01:38:23 am: The new changes are nice, though the PP7 and DD44 fire a bit too slow now and the PP7 strangely has better accuracy than the PP7-S.
I like how the Klobb fires even slower now. :p

I agree with KM on the shotguns; they fire very fast and the view pitch is rather disorienting. I'm all for lowering the firerate on the regular shotgun.
Title: Re: VC's Laboratory 81119
Post by: Wake[of]theBunT on November 21, 2008, 02:05:56 am: Anyone who disagrees with the current fire rates cant be considered a goldeneye fan. Because they are exactly on. I tested in both formatts.

If it feels wrong to anyone, you were bred on 3 years of scott/lodle/killermonkey's best estimates of what goldeneye: source should "feel" like. Whereas this is goldeneye statistics, reborn on a PC. Epic all im saying.

I got to say that c-mag finally feels like a proper gun now, not like im a down-syndrome with a giant pistol. AR33 feels more like the original, in my testing the rcp90 does not feel correct though, and thats the only one i saw a difference in fire rate between platforms (maybe im wrong? idk). This marks a turnaround in beta3 becoming something that will rock your socks off, kids! Im so glad this VC experiment was given legs.
Title: Re: VC's Laboratory 81119
Post by: Sergeant Kelly on November 21, 2008, 02:34:46 am: Are you sure you updated the PP7 code, VC?
The unsilenced version definitely fires slower and has better accuracy.

Quote from: Wake[of]theBunT on November 21, 2008, 02:05:56 am
Anyone who disagrees with the current fire rates cant be considered a goldeneye fan. Because they are exactly on. I tested in both formatts.
The fire rates might be spot on but the view recoil isn't. I'd change one or the other because these current ones give me headaches.
Title: Re: VC's Laboratory 81119
Post by: Wake[of]theBunT on November 21, 2008, 02:50:17 am: Could be off, but Killermonkey is solely responsible for "view recoil" right? That either never existed, or wasnt a strong feature with ges before beta3.

Personally i dont understand it, and it indeed for me messes with a lot of the way guns aim. Its my view fire rates should not be changed from VC's well gathered statistics to support some "new" feature to goldeneye gameplay.

It should be the other way around. New features being subtlely (emphasis) nestled around canon fire rates to offset the keyboard/mouse advantage. I got no problem with view recoil if it is just very minimal. We'll see how this all pans out in testing. These new statistics for weapons have in essence BROKEN the game, because its step #1 in getting a good basis to conform the other aspects of weapons, animation, and coding to a more nostalgic state.
Title: Re: VC's Laboratory 81119
Post by: killermonkey on November 21, 2008, 03:00:56 am: You are being awfully dramatic Wake. The view punch does not affect aim in the slightest besides adding a visual impact to the gun firing. Your aim is still in the same PLACE and in the same CONE as your crosshair. I am not in favor of making COD4 view punches nor am I in favor of NO view punch, I want to create a sense that the weapons are really doing something when you fire them instead of just a sound and animation. If you want nostalgia pickup the N64, we simply can't have nostaglia and let it be fun by the virtue of > 4 players. That alone is the cause for tweaks and differences. Also, visual additions are a great way to bring the player INTO the game and let them feel like they did when playing with their friends in GE64.

If you want to discuss further hit my up on AIM or the dev forums.

As for VC's scripts they have not broken the game at all, in fact the game has never felt better. Since all the weapons have their place again in the lineup.
Title: Re: VC's Laboratory 81119
Post by: VC on November 21, 2008, 06:28:22 am: Public discussion is fun. Dev discussion is for the details.

PP7 Unsilenced is a high-quality gun. You'll note that in Goldeneye 007 multiplayer, it only appears in Golden Gun mode, and it takes the #5 spawn slot, which replaces the second headliner weapon. It's just that smexy.

The pistol fire rate is certainly up for discussion; they behave oddly* and I'm mostly concerned with keeping them slow enough that people can't abuse them with creative scripting. Shotgun fire rates are canon as long as you are tapping the trigger in Goldeneye 007; that's just how they roll yo. If they prove overpowered in testing then I'll happily throttle them, but I don't expect that to be the case with AShot v. RCP90. I'm guessing rocksalt would fit in with Automatics-grade weapons.

* Oddly means in GE007, you can tap off a couple shots very quickly but then the game throttles you on #3 or #4.

lol bunty; is RCP feeling slow? I could bring it up just to make people feel better, but if you're judging fire rate by sound, it should be noted that GE007 doesn't exactly match sounds to bullets. Klobb sounds like it fires four bullets each time you pull the trigger.
Title: Re: VC's Laboratory 81119
Post by: VC on November 21, 2008, 06:58:05 am: I've sent an update on the scripts; the only change is the damage and scaling has been adjusted because the way I had them made them deal trivial damage to objects.

Regarding fire rate; Testing can tell me after a couple sessions if they think pistols should be PP7-S speed or PP7/DD44 speed. PP7-S is spammy fast like GES Alpha/Beta2, DD44 and PP7-U are timed against the fastest Goldeneye canon speed I could consistently fire at.

Regarding visual recoil; I'll await more testing feedback before changing much, but mostly I'm interested if Kelly's the only one who gets headaches from shotty and if CMag feels appropriate.
Title: Re: VC's Laboratory 81119
Post by: major on November 21, 2008, 07:47:55 am: Since we seem to be posting here.

Is the Pump supposed to be same speed as Auto shotgun?

And is the Sniper rifle supposed to be automatic, is so, may need lower recoil cause crosshairs never return to center before next round is fired.
Title: Re: VC's Laboratory 81119
Post by: Wake[of]theBunT on November 21, 2008, 08:56:51 am: No more talking here please. As VC said this was intended to be "fun" blog talk about his progress, not developer details and feedback from playtesting. Im guilty I overshared myself, and its a trend we probly should not engage in further.

kkthanks.

VC continue making it fun and bloggy.
Title: Re: VC's Laboratory 81119
Post by: Jonathan [Spider] on November 21, 2008, 09:22:28 am: for anyone in the community wondering what its like to be a dev... this is a pretty good taste lol.
Title: Re: VC's Laboratory 81119
Post by: VC on November 21, 2008, 06:46:41 pm: I don't mind the questions much; it forces me to think from new points of view and that is required to avoid becoming a stubborn arse. :D However I'd much rather discuss guns with the testers in tester land after a test.

In GE007, rocksalt and assault shotguns fire at the same rate. That the rocksalt looks like a pump has no impact on its behavior. It really serves no purpose other than to allow a shotgun in a weak-weapon environment. In single-player, you weren't going up against enemies with brains and body armor.
In GE007, sniper rifle behaves like a silenced PP7. It tap-fires rapid semiauto with a slower refire rate if you hold the key. The recoil thing is an experiment to discourage spamming with it.
Title: Re: VC's Laboratory 81119
Post by: CCsaint10 on November 21, 2008, 11:47:33 pm: Nice, I am totally digging all this discussion. :) I actually think I would enjoy being a dev if I ever had the skills. :)
Title: Re: VC's Laboratory 81119
Post by: Jeron [SharpSh00tah] on November 21, 2008, 11:51:35 pm: Quote from: bklax23 on November 21, 2008, 11:47:33 pm
Nice, I am totally digging all this discussion. :) I actually think I would enjoy being a dev if I ever had the skills. :)

TAKE IT BACK WHILE YOU STILL CAN!!@!!@!@!!@