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Death

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Gun damage
« on: August 13, 2016, 07:41:17 am »

The gun damage per weapon is in the exact REVERSE order....

pistols do the most damage the fastest,
smg's do the second most damage,
rifles do the least damage...........

Mangley

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Re: Gun damage
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2016, 05:08:46 pm »

Pistols reward careful headshots

Smgs reward getting as many shots on a target as fast as possible

Rifles reward burst fire and tap shots

Weapon balance is more or less the same as it always has been, damage values of automatic weapons are lower but their damage potential over time is as much as always relative to pistols. In 5.0 you have to put more thought into how you use your weapons, it's no longer just about spamming at head level because invuln used to reward that.
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Death

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Re: Gun damage
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2016, 05:18:17 pm »

well headshots should be rewarded.

what you have is a system that screams throw away all weapons and get a pistol ASAP so you can 2/3 hs someone

with the rifles it takes 4+ headshots to kill and that's just ridiculous.

all guns but the pistols are useless in the game, you guys chose a system that punishes people for picking up the "better" weapons.

at least its fun headshotting with pistols while people spam your face with a rifle with no chance in hell.

you guys have a unbalanced mess and its comical.

pistols should take 3/4 headshots with better moving accuracy
smg's should take 2-3 headhots with slightly worse moving accuracy
and rifles should take 1-2 headshots with extremely bad moving accuracy.

simple. and all you have to do is look at the popular / good first person shooters out there that follow this formula for a damn reason
its the best implementation of weapon balancing.

Mangley

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Re: Gun damage
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2016, 06:17:45 pm »

Headshots are always rewarded, they're the most optimal way to deal damage. You're just not penalized for hitting other parts of a player than the head now.

You don't seem to understand how broken invulnerability was before 5.0. For example: you could shoot all 80 bullets from the RCP90 into someone's head when they had full health and armor and only about 8 or 9 of those shots would actually register and if you hit the torso before you hit the head your headshot wouldn't count if you were firing rapidly.

If you don't like the changes to game balance then it may just not be the game for you.


simple. and all you have to do is look at the popular / good first person shooters out there that follow this formula for a damn reason
its the best implementation of weapon balancing.


If plenty of other shooters do it the way you want it then play them instead.
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namajnaG

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Re: Gun damage
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2016, 06:22:47 pm »

Most "popular modern" shooters actually takes one to two headshots with a pistol. BF takes two in softcore, CS takes two if the enemy is wearing an helmet, CoD takes two, Insurgency takes one, the list could go on. I can't think of any popular FPS that takes more than two pistol headshots to kill an opponent.

Death

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Re: Gun damage
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2016, 06:49:26 pm »

Headshots are always rewarded, they're the most optimal way to deal damage. You're just not penalized for hitting other parts of a player than the head now.

You don't seem to understand how broken invulnerability was before 5.0. For example: you could shoot all 80 bullets from the RCP90 into someone's head when they had full health and armor and only about 8 or 9 of those shots would actually register and if you hit the torso before you hit the head your headshot wouldn't count if you were firing rapidly.

If you don't like the changes to game balance then it may just not be the game for you.

If plenty of other shooters do it the way you want it then play them instead.

that is a different issue that has nothing to do with balancing the weapons. if bullets are not registering thats a whole different problem.

with rifles it should be 1-2 head shots per kill. BUT if you move around it should be damn near impossible to spam headshots,
smg's should be in the middle, and pistols should have the most running accuracy.

moving accuracy is how you balance the guns not just making smgs / rifles paper weights, open your game
go to any server and look a the most "popular" guns. yup you guessed it. pistols, even people talking in the
game say pistols are OP, i have already won a few game modes with doing nothing but using the pistol because
of how useless the smg's/rifles are.

If you don't like the changes to game balance then it may just not be the game for you.

as a LONG time pc fps player (my first pc i built myself with a summer job had a voodoo 2 card) i can tell you with such poor implementation
 this game is going to be nothing more than a weekend fad,i'm sorry if it hurts that your current system sucks and was implemented wrong,
but i can tell you there is a formula that both makes sense and works and its the same formula that all popular fps's use.

bigger the gun the more damage it does and the less accurate it is while you move.

pistols should be 3-4 bar headshot damage, smg's at 3-4, and rifles at 4-6.

smg's can keep the same headshot damage as pistols as most achually use pistol ammo, but thats irrilevent
you just get to spam more bullets at the head, however if you are more than 30 ft away from the player it should
be inaccurate enough that it is difficult to run and headshot with the smg's.

with the rifles it should be hard to run and headshot if they are more than 10ft away.

and by hard i mean ~30% chance of landing the shot with perfect aim.


i talked to around 15 people on my friends list who played the game and all of them said the same thing, the mouse input acceleration that's forced
and this weapon balancing has made all but 1 of them uninstall the game already.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2016, 06:57:13 pm by Death »
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Mangley

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Re: Gun damage
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2016, 06:56:00 pm »

As a long time PC fps player myself I'm suggesting that if you are finding yourself at odds so much with the way we designed this one there are other games out there which would suit you better.

When someone's gripes are with something at what is more or less at a fundamental level like yours are, there's basically no way to reconcile it. You either keep at it and grow to like it, put up with it for as long as you can, or just cut your losses now and decide this isn't for you.
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Death

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Re: Gun damage
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2016, 07:18:23 pm »

nostalgia is a bitch.



the one thing that makes a game stick for people or not is how it "feels", its always the most important
part of game development.

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Re: Gun damage
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2016, 07:29:14 pm »

How a game "feels" is ultimately subjective.

If this feels bad to you then play something else. Feel free to play older versions of the mod with 0 other people and insist that it feels better to you. Nostalgia is indeed a bitch.
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Death

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Re: Gun damage
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2016, 07:35:10 pm »

How a game "feels" is ultimately subjective.

If this feels bad to you then play something else. Feel free to play older versions of the mod with 0 other people and insist that it feels better to you. Nostalgia is indeed a bitch.

subjective is true, but when you can look at the fps market and see there are a lot of popular fps's and unpopular ones and all
the popular ones follow the same "feel", has to be something to it.

also updating the movement accuracy / damage per weapon is extremely easy in the source engine provided you guys didn't recreate the wheel from scratch.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2016, 11:22:11 pm by Death »
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Graslu

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Re: Gun damage
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2016, 11:24:34 pm »

This is a fast paced arena shooter, you can't try to give a penalty to constant movement by lowering the accuracy while moving. This isn't CS.

Damage and accuracy values are right now, it feels way better than it did on past version, and I played the hell out of them.
If you pick a PP7 over a Phantom, then you're not using it correctly, because you'll kill way more and faster with the Phantom than with the PP7.

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Re: Gun damage
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2016, 11:57:56 pm »

This is a fast paced arena shooter, you can't try to give a penalty to constant movement by lowering the accuracy while moving. This isn't CS.

Damage and accuracy values are right now, it feels way better than it did on past version, and I played the hell out of them.
If you pick a PP7 over a Phantom, then you're not using it correctly, because you'll kill way more and faster with the Phantom than with the PP7.

fast paced arena shooter or not, the guns damage are opposite what they should be, and i can use a pp7 and double hs most people WAY before they can get the 4+ headshots with the rifles / smgs to kill me.

and i never once said the game should be "cs".

also i don't know what the "previous" version was, as that's irreverent as you both of you have expressed that it was done wrong before.

with the current setup the game can easilly be called "codename: the division" and have little damage popups for how little damage the rifles do.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2016, 12:13:17 am by Death »
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Mangley

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Re: Gun damage
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2016, 01:04:25 am »

Since these are your initial impressions of the mod then, we suggest you learn the game and play it for a minimum of 2 weeks so you can give substantive and meaningful feedback.
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Graslu

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Re: Gun damage
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2016, 01:09:04 am »

What can I say, that's because most people are bad at playing. Once you meet the better players you'll see yourself having a hard time if you try to use pistols only against rifles or SMGs.

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Re: Gun damage
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2016, 01:22:27 am »

Since these are your initial impressions of the mod then, we suggest you learn the game and play it for a minimum of 2 weeks so you can give substantive and meaningful feedback.

Don't need to play it for any real amount of time to easily see in all the servers ive played in people much prefer the pistols over the rifles/smgs, and the ones who do use the rifles/smg's do the worst. (you can also see this trend on the score board at the end of dm's ect when the top few used pistols and the bottom used smg/rifles)

also being a fresh set if eyes its much easier to see issues vs becoming complacent with how it is setup.

What can I say, that's because most people are bad at playing. Once you meet the better players you'll see yourself having a hard time if you try to use pistols only against rifles or SMGs.


i've run into a few players so far who are not terrible and the few i have seen seem to favor pistols and have mentioned how OP they are in chat.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2016, 01:31:35 am by Death »
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