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Author Topic: very underwhelmed - sorry devs !!  (Read 6601 times)

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SoFGR

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very underwhelmed - sorry devs !!
« on: August 13, 2016, 11:35:44 am »

@work right now  so I can't really type much

here's a small copypaste from a post that I made in another forum  about the 5.0 update (  necro-ed  a 2007 thread  in hardOCP just for you guys :p )

Quote
  now about the mod itself, I don't really  like the direction they've taken after beta 3, it's been in development for almost 11 years btw, still have fond memories of the public alpha that was released in late '05

( paying for hl2dm back then was the cheapest way in order to play sourcemods )

gameplay is way too "unfaithfull" right now, the "temporal invulnerability when you get hit" period is very brief - so that newbies don't comlain about hitreg (lol )

they already allienated me back in '09 when they decided to allow movement while aiming with the red sights ( R button in good old N64 controller )

the addition of new models and sounds ( who asked for them anyway ? ) along with the "tweaked" invulnerability period was the last straw :/ it doesn't feel like GE N64 anymore, especially when most servers have jumping enabled atm.

playerbase size is very healthy right now but that does not mean much since the maps were meant to be played with 4 players anyway , played a "remastered" version of bunker last night and it was horrible, 16 players ManWithGoldenGun and I managed to top the scoreboard mostley out of sheer because everybody was literally spawning in front of each other ( "cod4 shipment" clusterpuck )

how's your framerates btw ?

I get a lot of jitter / microstuttering when the server is packed - specs : amd r9 390 + 4690k @ 4.4 ghz

settings : all low - disabled, 1080p 120hz , 2x AA 8x AF fps_max 125 ( drops to 80-110 during shootouts in large maps like Dam and it feels horrible )

pooping in your very own "party" feelsbadman :p 
« Last Edit: August 13, 2016, 11:44:44 am by SoFGR »
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Luchador

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Re: very underwhelmed - sorry devs !!
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2016, 12:20:22 pm »

Hello,

Thank you for your feedback. We did quite consciously decide to deviate from the original game in a number of ways in order to make the game, we believe, more fun. There was a lot of discussion on the dev team about invulnerability in particular. We think one reason 4.2 had such poor player retention was because the old invuln system made many weapons feel unrewarding. You could load 10 bullets from an automatic into an enemy and maybe one or two would count. Many players would confuse this for bad hit reg. So we altered the invuln system with the knowledge that a few hardcore GE players would dislike it, but many more players would find the game to be more fun.

If you find 16 players on Bunker too hectic, then I would recommend joining a smaller server. We give servers the freedom to largely do as they please. That means players need to use some discretion and understand that any server they join may not have an optimal experience.

We've gone to great lengths to optimize the game, but please understand that we're stuck on an outdated game engine and there's only so much we can do. In terms of graphics we're trying to compete with other modern games, so there have been a lot of visual upgrades since 4.2. That comes at some cost to performance, but on the bright side we get fewer comments such as "GE:S is so ugly I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole." Game development is all about trade-offs.

You may disagree with our decisions, but we hope you'll still appreciate that many people have donated their time to create this game.

SoFGR

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Re: very underwhelmed - sorry devs !!
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2016, 01:06:01 pm »

yes I understand, but i also miss my rock stable 250fps :/

the  jitter is unacceptable,  a high fps  cfg would be much appreciated.   everything in the menus is already off/disabled.
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killermonkey

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Re: very underwhelmed - sorry devs !!
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2016, 01:22:23 pm »

You do realize that anything over 30 FPS is a farse right? The server only runs at 20 FPS if I am not mistaken. It does not matter how fast your computer is, if the server only processes the information at 20 FPS....

Your eyes cannot perceive anything over about 60 FPS, its physically impossible for you to tell the difference between 60 FPS and 250 FPS.

Is your monitor's refresh rate even 250 Hz?
« Last Edit: August 13, 2016, 08:16:36 pm by killermonkey »
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SoFGR

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Re: very underwhelmed - sorry devs !!
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2016, 02:03:48 pm »

it's all about input lag and  fluidity ^

 http://esreality.com/post/2640619/input-lag-tests-ql-csgo/

it looks VERY jittery  when i drop from 125 to 110, have to launch fraps and check the frame pacing, something feels really off there.

I could cap my frames to 60  and call it a day  but  that would add tons of mouselag, fyi I always played  GES @ 120hz, even when i beta 3 was brand spanking new and there were no 1080p 120hz LCDs  around, my old trusty LG F900P  did the job  just fine @ 1024*768

edit : last time I checked  all GES servers run  66tick, not 30 not even close to 20 (lol)





« Last Edit: August 13, 2016, 07:05:26 pm by SoFGR »
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Graslu

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Re: very underwhelmed - sorry devs !!
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2016, 04:54:03 pm »

You do realize that anything over 30 FPS is a farse right? The server only runs at 20 FPS if I am not mistaken. It does not matter how fast your computer is, if the server only processes the information at 20 FPS....

Your eyes cannot perceive anything over about 60 FPS, its physically impossible for you to tell the difference between 60 FPS and 250 FPS.

Is your monitor's refresh rate even 250 Hz?

As SoFGR already said, most if not all servers run above 30 tick, and it's not only about how it registers, it's how fluid it is.
On my old computer and 60hz monitor, I was able to feel drops from 200 to 90fps when explosions happened around the map because the mouse movement would jitter.

I have to agree with SoFGR here, even though I do not agree that the changes made to the mod are necessarily bad. I have a 144hz monitor and dropping below that is a pain most of times, again, because fluidity and the mouse "skipping".

Mangley

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Re: very underwhelmed - sorry devs !!
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2016, 05:03:26 pm »

FPS fluctuations aren't avoidable on the engine sadly, if the engine has an fps cap feature it would help considerably but it does not as far as I know.

We definitely designed for the 95% here.
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SoFGR

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Re: very underwhelmed - sorry devs !!
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2016, 05:47:56 pm »

As SoFGR already said, most if not all servers run above 30 tick, and it's not only about how it registers, it's how fluid it is.
On my old computer and 60hz monitor, I was able to feel drops from 200 to 90fps when explosions happened around the map because the mouse movement would jitter.

I have to agree with SoFGR here, even though I do not agree that the changes made to the mod are necessarily bad. I have a 144hz monitor and dropping below that is a pain most of times, again, because fluidity and the mouse "skipping".



:D

5% or not,  multicore rendering and advanced graphic options are  must haves if you want to make your mod look prettier AND scale-able.

atleast tell us about how we can turn off unnecessary effects like those highly  reflective gun barrels that don't go away even when shader detail is set to "low" 
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soupcan

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Re: very underwhelmed - sorry devs !!
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2016, 06:28:41 pm »

You do realize that anything over 30 FPS is a farse right? The server only runs at 20 FPS if I am not mistaken. It does not matter how fast your computer is, if the server only processes the information at 20 FPS....

Your eyes cannot perceive anything over about 60 FPS, its physically impossible for you to tell the difference between 60 FPS and 250 FPS.

Is your monitor's refresh rate even 250 Hz?

I'm sorry KM, but this is outright false. Not only that having a higher refresh rate than the server's tickrate is beneficial, but servers run at 66-tick by default.
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killermonkey

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Re: very underwhelmed - sorry devs !!
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2016, 07:59:31 pm »

Yah I rescind my server tick rate comment. I'm not sold on this whole input lag saga though, call me old school but I played fps games for over 20 years and never once worried about fps needing to be above 30.

If you want to help us fix the issue, use the profiler in game and take a video while you play. It will highlight what is taking the most amount of time to process each frame.

Using the budget panel: https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Showbudget
« Last Edit: August 13, 2016, 08:21:58 pm by killermonkey »
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SoFGR

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Re: very underwhelmed - sorry devs !!
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2016, 09:28:56 pm »

ok just gave it a shot, I think 7 bots are enough   :)

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/494654277136782959/C7CF57B19CEB3CAFA143D3C52D0517879FEC8449/

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/494654277136769871/C8A2FE7504219AF52C83515A0738A898B033E306/

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/494654277136707123/072BBECD971B2107F8F1CC18E1A83327A1C581EA/

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/494654277136711191/016236DAE6B6B87B9D7C48FBD43E3BD92C08F626/

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/494654277136709799/4AE14B067A4114C888DA38B9A7BE4998274AB901/

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/494654277136726686/98516F33935D1801FB89B5762360F8D35391CBCB/

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/494654277136708607/59B79F31206A21684D0500A830A200EA0110082C/


here's a comment from a casual player who  doesn't even use a framerate counter

Quote
i played for a bit earlier, it's pretty fun. i had vsync disabled but i could see some issues with character models moving around somewhat erratically from time to time, couldn't really explain if it was a framerate issue or something else.
his specs :

i7-6700k @ 4.6ghz
h110i gtx
asus hero viii
gskill ripjaws 16gb ddr4
samsung 950 pro 512gb
evga supernova 1200
evga titan-x @ 1212/1953

he's RIGHT ON about the erratic movement thing !!

on another note, new sounds for amor pickup, dd44 and pp7 are pretty good, some others are mediocre / passable, but the new ones for  KF7+phantom+moonraker (still OP )  suck  ! HARD !!
« Last Edit: August 13, 2016, 09:41:06 pm by SoFGR »
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killermonkey

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Re: very underwhelmed - sorry devs !!
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2016, 10:16:22 pm »

looks like you have a lot of time on networking (not surprising) and "unaccounted" which Valve says in their Wiki is usually associated with antivirus, other applications, or whatever (ie NOT engine work).

What else is running on your comp? Maybe you have some interference going on.
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SoFGR

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Re: very underwhelmed - sorry devs !!
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2016, 10:24:37 pm »

avira antivirus - d3d overrider - riva tuner statistics server -soundblaster Z control panel - intel management engine. I will do a full system scan later on, just in case.
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SoFGR

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Re: very underwhelmed - sorry devs !!
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2016, 10:21:29 am »

after a little bit of private chating with a very friendly GES dev and lots of A/B testing @ 67fps , ( I even forced directx8.0 with the mat_dxlevel 80 cvar and the framerate  dropped around 52 during a 12 player match in ge_archives :/ ) 

I'm now 99.9% sure that it has to do with the sound engine, ( options -> sound > low quality )   it looks and feels much smoother/responsive atm even with  some occasional drops to 220-180 while playing  bunker 16p , maybe 250 fps is too much for single core rendering, I think i will stick to 125fps max, dx8 mode  all low/disabled, low sound quality and call it a day, still looks better than the n64 version  :P

PS : here's my whole setup for reference -> https://steamcommunity.com/linkfilter/?url=http://www.overclock.net/lists/display/view/id/6334452

sound blaster Z is set to 5.1 ingame, windows sampling rates are  the standard ones ( 48khz 16bit )
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