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[oboe]

I don't care what anyone says, but if and when this mod gets all levels, models and weapons complete, it WILL be superior to GE 64. And I was a HUGE fan of that game, like many of you. Anyone who tries to compare that game today with this mod is seriously retarded.

If it's not Canon, then it's not Goldeneye.

[Peon]

Hey I just thought of another point. Could you play the original online, against more than 4 people, with everyone having their own screen and HUD? No...so why isn't it superior again? You'd also have to be some sort of jackass to know that I am, of course, referring to Goldeneye's multi-player aspect.

More on gameplay and Gun balance...were the guns balanced in the original?...again it's a hell no. I thought the whole point of having guns in your game at all is that they might all be....DIFFERENT! Maybe with qualities that allow different players to do better with certain guns. Beatles bitches about the ZMG being overpowered, but the truth is he probably can't aim the auto-shottie well enough to realize how powerful that gun is. It's amazing that someone who constructs his grammar so meticulously should be so dense. And BTW, you don't sound pretentious, you have to sound smart first.

One thing I didn't consider, is that maybe Beatles had to pay for his copy of Goldeneye Source? I got mine for free...duh. Yet one more thing that makes this a great mod.

Another thing to consider is that Goldeneye on the N64's multi-player wasn't that deep of an experience anyway when you compare it to games these days. CS, BF2, TFC, and even Perfect Dark are all examples of multi-player games with more depth. Hell one of the reasons I liked CS so much was that it was a phenomenal team game that contained most of the guns that were in Goldeneye. I would count Halo in this, but that game only managed to equal the original Goldeneye's mechanics. It far more shallow than even PD. Halo's popularity amazes me...but then again some people do some amazingly dumb things...like crap on this mod.

Hell, I don't even think that the guys who are making this mod think, or even hope, that it's going to replace any of the games that I mentioned in popularity. I'm having a bunch of fun jumping in, fragging for a bit, and then moving on. What's so crappy about that?

[oboe]

Hey I just thought of another point. Could you play the original online, against more than 4 people, with everyone having their own screen and HUD? No...so why isn't it superior again? You'd also have to be some sort of jackass to know that I am, of course, referring to Goldeneye's multi-player aspect.

More on gameplay and Gun balance...were the guns balanced in the original?...again it's a hell no. I thought the whole point of having guns in your game at all is that they might all be....DIFFERENT! Maybe with qualities that allow different players to do better with certain guns. Beatles bitches about the ZMG being overpowered, but the truth is he probably can't aim the auto-shottie well enough to realize how powerful that gun is. It's amazing that someone who constructs his grammar so meticulously should be so dense. And BTW, you don't sound pretentious, you have to sound smart first.

One thing I didn't consider, is that maybe Beatles had to pay for his copy of Goldeneye Source? I got mine for free...duh. Yet one more thing that makes this a great mod.

Another thing to consider is that Goldeneye on the N64's multi-player wasn't that deep of an experience anyway when you compare it to games these days. CS, BF2, TFC, and even Perfect Dark are all examples of multi-player games with more depth. Hell one of the reasons I liked CS so much was that it was a phenomenal team game that contained most of the guns that were in Goldeneye. I would count Halo in this, but that game only managed to equal the original Goldeneye's mechanics. It far more shallow than even PD. Halo's popularity amazes me...but then again some people do some amazingly dumb things...like crap on this mod.

Hell, I don't even think that the guys who are making this mod think, or even hope, that it's going to replace any of the games that I mentioned in popularity. I'm having a bunch of fun jumping in, fragging for a bit, and then moving on. What's so crappy about that?

1. Yes, you can play the original online, whether it involves more than 4 people, I don't know. Emulation is required.

2. Yes, the guns were balanced in the original.

3. Just because it can play online does not mean it's superior. I understand it's a beta, but unless the mission statement is followed it is a failure. You could change the mission statement, but doing that is of course begging for current fans to lose interest.

4. I'd currently rather have 3 of my friends come over to play Goldeneye with me, than to play GE:S with them online. Not that it's necessarily better this way, it's completely different and my personal preference. While the work that has been done on GE:S is fairly cool (as I could not do better myself) at this point GE:S has not completed what it has set out to do in it's mission statement, but it is moving towards that goal.

Is The Original Goldeneye 007 for N64 better than the Current Beta 1 of GE:S?
Yes, because you're comparing a complete game to a beta.
Once GE:S is complete will it be better than the original Goldeneye 007 for N64? Yes, as long as they followed their mission statement (which is to improve goldeneye but keep the feel of the original).

Not that these guys haven't been working hard, they have been working hard. But it they still have a long way to go to compete with the original game.

It remains to be seen if they're keeping in-line with their mission statement, it's important to keep from adding superfluous features because they're 'cool.' Just because you couldn't do it in Goldeneye doesn't mean that it is an improvement. Sure you couldn't use Goldeneye 007 to grill a steak, but if they gave GE:S the ability to grill steaks, however cool it may be, it is no longer an improvement on Goldeneye, it becomes a completely different project all together.

I don't necessarily want to see new features in Goldeneye, I'd like to see items that improve gameplay, but something like, grilling steaks, doesn't improve gameplay it changes the game all together.

Remember, the definition of a Peon
pe·on  (pn, pn)
n.
1.
a. An unskilled laborer or farm worker of Latin America or the southwest United States.
b. Such a worker bound in servitude to a landlord creditor.
2. A menial worker; a drudge.
3. also (pyn) In India and other parts of South and Southeast Asia, a person of menial position, especially a messenger, servant, or foot soldier.

This kind of reminds me when I was talking to someone by the name of Lone Wolf,
The question came up 'what is that supposed to mean?'
And I said, it obviously means he doesn't have any friends.

[Konrad Beerbaum]

I followed you all the way up until your last 2 paragraphs.  Wtf was the point of that?

[FlyBMXer4130]

Laugh out loud @ CS being a game with "depth."

[Peon]

Hey! Thanks for explaining to me what my name means...I had no idea! I was going to pick Super Awesome Jerkoff, but it was taken. Something else funny is that one of the reasons I'm happy using the name Peon, is how when someone wants to insult me they make fun of a name that I gave myself. Great stuff. Know what else?...No one likes getting their butt kicked in by a Peon.

So anyways to respond...in numerical order...

1)You can't play it online ON AN N64....sorry I wasn't exactly implicitly perfectly specific in my explanation, and didn't account for computer emulation....even though I kept referring to the N64 version...oh well.

2)Don't try to tell me that a Klobb is just as powerfull as a RCP90...I've been stuck with a pistol fighting someone who has an AR33 enough times to know that not all the guns are balanced. If anything this Beta is MORE balanced....well except for the Golden Gun.

3)Going online means getting to play with more than 4 people...therefore it is better from where I'm standing...but then that leads us into....

4)...never been to a LAN party huh?....heard of them maybe? Hell I'd even rather take my rig over to a friends place if it's all about getting together, than get all of those cords run so I can play N64 on 1/4 of a screen....Perfect Dark maybe. If I want to play video games with my friends in the living room, the Wii does that job now.

Now, if you want to get into the "for it's time" part of the argument, then "for it's time" Duke Nukem 3D was better...happy? Even if you're talking N64 only, I know some people who liked 4 player Starfox64 better. But I will give you...that for EXACTLY when it came out until the EXACT day that Perfect Dark came out, Goldeneye was the best 4-player, split-screen, multi-friend (in the same room) video game of all time. I'd like someone to try and argue with that statement......I didn't say FPS though hmmm....

BUT...then again...Goldeneye Source is the better Goldeneye experience for IT's time....you know like...right now. Games aren't like girlfriends to me...just because I'd been seeing Goldeneye for years, doesn't mean I can't fool around with Perfect Dark. The games don't get their feelings hurt when I fondle the other ones. The N64 pad was great, and I loved it, but the truth of the matter is that thing ain't got shiite on my mouse/keypad. No contest. Mouse/Keypad > N64 controller.....there I said it.....ok, why do I fell like I want to cry now?.....I guess I can get sentimental after all.

So.....spill it....exactly how many things in a game have to be better than the original, for it to be considered better? Btw, did I mention it's free?

[Semedi]

BTW, you don't sound pretentious, you have to sound smart first.

I'll admit, I got a good laugh out of that 

[InvertedShadow]

Oh hi there weclock. Still sour from being banned I see.

[Jonathan [Spider]]

Not that these guys haven't been working hard, they have been working hard. But it they still have a long way to go to compete with the original game.

It remains to be seen if they're keeping in-line with their mission statement, it's important to keep from adding superfluous features because they're 'cool.' Just because you couldn't do it in Goldeneye doesn't mean that it is an improvement. Sure you couldn't use Goldeneye 007 to grill a steak, but if they gave GE:S the ability to grill steaks, however cool it may be, it is no longer an improvement on Goldeneye, it becomes a completely different project all together.

I don't necessarily want to see new features in Goldeneye, I'd like to see items that improve gameplay, but something like, grilling steaks, doesn't improve gameplay it changes the game all together.

you would be surprised how long we have to go on the art side of things hehe. code side is a whole nother ball of wax but even that might get a good kick start in the coming weeks if things go well.

everybody loves steaks, i think im going to bug inverted to code me in a steak grilling aspect of the game, we could make golden eye fuse with cooking mama.. that would rule especialy if we added in the HL2 Wiimote functionality. PWnage dude im so stealing your idea hahaa

no worries about us breaking the spirit of the original game. everyone on the team wants to resurect the spirit of the original. hopefuly in doing so we can add a few bells and whistles in the process with some luck to make the game more balanced and dynamic and fun than the original. if you dust off your old copy of golden eye and paly it now. youll notice your memory of the game is a lot sweeter than the reality of what the game is in comparison to what we have now. we want to match the high points of the memorys people have, and push the short comings of the original under the rug. and maybe with a little luck we can play designer and be able to add a few of our own little flairs that we hope people will love to make the game our own.

after all if it was just a straight cannon port of the original why not just grab an emulator and save ourselves the hassel.

[CrzChris4]

This is my personel opinion, and I may be called a faggot, or whatever. But to me, GoldenEye 007 for the N64 is superior.

One of the reasons is the score. I love Graeme Norgate's score. I find it superb, and as much as I like Trent Robertson's score for Source, well it just doesn't quite bring up the feeling that Norgate's score does. Granted, I like the Facility Source track. It's catchy, but the thing that is wierd, is that instead of getting me to play Source, it brought me back, where I dusted my N64 off, and played GoldenEye.

And I know you guys here are trying your hardest, hell I know I wouldn't be able to do this, but well this is just an Opinion, and don't judge it too harsly.


PS - I like the Runway multiplayer map, and the Control map as well. But if you want to fully lure me to get into the mod, make a single player!

[Loafie, Hero of Dreams]

haha, nobody should be called a fag for liking the original more

[FlyBMXer4130]

I think the weapons in GE64 were perfectly "balanced;" I think you say balanced and you really mean to say everything is "equal."  Why the heck would a Klobb be as powerful as an AR33 or a P90?  I mean, it's a gun with horrible recoil, slow ROF, little power (9mm maybe?), compared to that of what, an assault rifle (.223?) at nearly twice the ROF and and power, too.  If every weapon were the exact same there'd be no need for more than one gun, that'd be rather bland (not to mention unrealistic which some people bitch so much about).

[CrzChris4]

One thing I really like that you guys did, is make Caves good. To me, I just don't really like the map. You get lost so easily, but it would make a really good single player mission where you have to kill Mayday, like the ending to the movie A View To A Kill.

And yes, all the guns in the game are different. I learned in Multiplayer that if you have a choice between the Klobb and the Slappers, I would rather go with the Slappers.

And hell no, the piece of crap Klobb doesn't equal the AR33, or RC-P90, and whoever said that, has never played the game. And for the record, I find PD's multiplayer only slightly better because there are bots, but I'd rather play against another human, or else I'd play single player.

Anyone here try playing through 007 Mode with all the settings up in Facility or Frigate? Well, I can do it. It's all about cover, and using your slappers. I suggest trying Facility first, since you get ammo and Remote Mines. In Frigate, your starved for ammo right off the bat, and it's way harder.

[Peon]

Oh boy....I guess I'm going to have to go back and quote people so you understand what about balance I'm talking about. To explain what has transpired to FlyBMXer4130, here goes.....

What started everything was a claim by The Beatles pwn j00! when he said: "I for one can't wait until the mod consists of more than just good atmosphere and pretty graphics. You know, like, playability. Such as a halfway decent weapon balance." In some of his other posts he is specific in his criticism, saying that the ZMG is way more powerfull than the other guns in the game so far. That's the "balance" that he is talking about being off.

Then I replied to that by saying: "As far as having problems with gun balance.....I don't know WTF you are talking about. I am murdering folks very quickly with just about every gun."

I followed it up with: "I thought the whole point of having guns in your game at all is that they might all be....DIFFERENT! Maybe with qualities that allow different players to do better with certain guns."

Then Oboe said: "Yes, the guns were balanced in the original."

Then I said: "Don't try to tell me that a Klobb is just as powerfull as a RCP90...I've been stuck with a pistol fighting someone who has an AR33 enough times to know that not all the guns are balanced. If anything this Beta is MORE balanced."

So....according the definition of balanced being that all guns are equal, Goldeneye is not balanced. BUT....Like I said before....and you just said: "If every weapon were the exact same there'd be no need for more than one gun," that the whole point of the game's guns is that they are all different.

You there you have it....you made the same point that I did, according to the REAL definition of balanced. The balance of gun power depends on the situation when all of the guns are different.....like we've established that they should be. I only said this mod was more balanced because there's no RCP90, AR33, Klobb, Moonraker Laser, Gold PP7, Rocket Launcher, or Grenade Launcher in it yet. What I have seen, as far as the guns that are in it go, is that the ZMG doesn't outclass the KF7 by that much, and up close the Auto-Shotgun beats them both. Even pistols seem to kill fast....hell, I've beaten several people at range who had ZMGs by pistol sniping them.

So......that should clarify the whole saga.....and to think it all started with me thanking the mod team for such a great version....that I still like a lot......and has many positives over the original....which have been detailed here extensively.

[oboe]

Inverted Shadow -
I'm not sour, I've been completely civil and congratulatory.

Klobb being 'equal' to AR33 and/or RCP90 -
Of course in a direct fire fight you're not going to win with a klobb, but it's all about strategy. Let's take death match for example, probably from the last time you got killed, you injured your enemy, if you've got a klobb, you've got to be a cheap ass and do your best to sneak/run/hide and get as many potshots in as possible.
The weapons were balanced, you just have to know how to play with them. I never said that they were equal, if each gun was equal to another the game wouldn't be any fun.

Beta is better than complete game -
It isn't. That's like saying the 'leaked hl2 content' is better than current half-life 2.
The original Goldeneye 64 is a full and complete game, sure it isn't free, you can't buy it from retail stores anymore.
But you also have to acknowledge the existance of the black market. And that most people would rather pay for a full game than have a free beta.
(I.E. newbs coming in asking 'how much do I have to pay upon release?' because they want to pay for a full version, then they get really hyped when they find out 'o lol, don't have to pay.')

And who brought up the 'for it's time' issue?
Was Goldeneye the greatest game for it's time? I don't know, I only played it much after it was released. Was it one of the most influential games of it's time? I'd like to think so, it's a large factor in Microsofts Halo, which whether you like it or not, is the biggest (maybe not the best) game of our time. They're going to be selling Masterchiefs at burger king! Your fries will come in little pods!
Goldeneye helped to inspire that.


And yes, I've gone to lan parties, but it doesn't change the fact that in my personal preference I'd rather invite us all over to play Goldeneye 007 64 on my big screen T.V. as opposed to playing GE:S with the current netcode bugs (not the dev's fault) and needing each person to have their own copy of steam, hl2/srcsdkengine, and PC. Because to be honest a lot of my friends don't have PC's that can handle hl2, they spent their money on 360s and PS3s.

To Spider -
I have no doubt that every one on the team wants to make a tribute to the original Goldeneye 64 while improving upon it, but you know how us kids get, give us a little sugar, we get a little hyper, and do crazy things. The intentions are there, clearly, but sometimes people get ahead of themselves and start doing things that they don't agree with, without realizing much later that they shouldn't have done it. I.E. Boris
But most definitely, I'm am for things that make the game play better (jumping, online multiplayer, brilliant additions! lol). But of course there are some things you could do that would detract (adding the gravity gun, adding lua to the level of Gmod, maybe adding a web browser even).
I'm confident that with the playtesters you have, you're testing ideas, seeing which ones are fun, feasible, and over all awesome. But please remember that it's a video game, not an all in one application. Just because, yeah you can add lua, you can add phong and bloom to everything, doesn't mean it should be done. I like to see new features, but only and if only they improve gameplay, making it more fun, or strategic.

And on the subject of Music, Basstronix (Trent Robertson) has done a wonderful job, although I would like to see him do some crazy mixes that have little to nothing to do with the originals (like maybe some Jazz or Kabuki versions of different levels, as opposed to hard rock and techno), he still does a great job and the tracks sound awesome.

Oh, and to Konrad,
The point was to illustrate that no matter how far you guys have come to this point, until you've reached final it's an incomplete game and cannot be compared to the original, as to which is better.