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XGII

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Why am I a DEV?
« on: May 10, 2017, 06:14:50 AM »

Wondering why the dev tag is next to my name
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 06:21:20 AM by XGII »
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Graslu

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Re: Why am I a DEV?
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2017, 08:47:55 AM »

I'm surprised that you're confused about this since you clearly just modified your files to do this and it's client-side only. It's obvious that it's a modified achievement badge because Camper Steve also has it (Golden skull). I can see Paco also owns the Damascus Magnum. Weird. ;)

Torn

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Re: Why am I a DEV?
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2017, 09:36:42 AM »

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null

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Re: Why am I a DEV?
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2017, 11:10:11 PM »

Wondering why the dev tag is next to my name

Hey Turok, I was tweaking my server and that's why you got them.
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XGII

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Re: Why am I a DEV?
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2017, 12:28:35 AM »

Aight it's all good. Love how Graslu assumes it was my fault though like I did it. What a great guy I must say. Feel like a cork board that is beyond the size of comprehension yet in some way even though I can see the darts flying towards me. They never once pin to me from lack of understanding. But since I'm beyond the size of comprehension all those people who are responsible are never seen because they are behind me yet in some way those darts still miss me. Really odd honestly but hey happy to be here and be blamed. Love it really shows how much devs love their community.
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XGII

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Re: Why am I a DEV? (xpost from /r/SubredditSimulator)
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2017, 12:34:13 AM »

It's very clear how "obvious" and "clearly" patronizing someone can bluntly be and how "obviously" & "clearly". Really tells a story and is a way to protect themselves amongst their fellow peers because very very very few people can actually "read" into the "obvious" and "clearly" it "obviously" and "clearly" is. But hey my lips are sealed mate  :-X keep going I say. Or reword somethings you say so that it isn't as "obvious" and "clear" to pick up on. Therefore in return you show some "humility" and actual "respect" towards others in real life to :).
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 03:14:28 AM by soupcan »
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XGII

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Re: Why am I a DEV?
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2017, 12:46:13 AM »

yay
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Torn

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Re: Why am I a DEV?
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2017, 02:13:25 AM »

It's very clear how "obvious" and "clearly" patronizing someone can bluntly be and how "obviously" & "clearly". Really tells a story and is a way to protect themselves amongst their fellow peers because very very very few people can actually "read" into the "obvious" and "clearly" it "obviously" and "clearly" is. But hey my lips are sealed mate  :-X keep going I say. Or reword somethings you say so that it isn't as "obvious" and "clear" to pick up on. Therefore in return you show some "humility" and actual "respect" towards others in real life to :).

I'm uncertain what kind of "humility" you demonstrated when you "clearly" and "obviously" disregarded the moderation team and forum rules the other week, and after having been given concise reasoning and expectations, decided to post such things as:

Quote from: XGII
The fact I have to try and get my point across to you people is annoying in itself
Quote from: XGII
I'm going to keep posting this because I shouldn't have to explain this and hold anyone's hand as to why.
Quote from: XGII
FUCK YOU I still lose just as much :D eat your heart out

You were saying something about people being "patronizing" and not showing "respect" to others?
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Mangley

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Re: Why am I a DEV?
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2017, 04:35:38 AM »

Never mind the dev tag, it looks like there's something seriously wrong with your game. Have you got GPU drivers installed?
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Entropy-Soldier

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Re: Why am I a DEV?
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2017, 08:05:05 AM »

Hey Turok, I was tweaking my server and that's why you got them.

I always kind of assumed someone smart enough to mess with this stuff would also be smart enough to know not to mess with it.
Running a server with a non-official binary, giving out fake dev tags, or distastefully hijacking the skins system are all things that are going to get you on the bad side of the dev team and get your servers blacklisted in 5.1.

There are many avenues for modding and adding custom content into GE:S, but please respect the sanctity of stuff like this.  I feel like it should be really obvious not to mess with this kind of thing and it's not entirely clear what you've done or what your end goal is, but consider this an explicit warning not to do the above.  There's only so much I can do to prevent abuse of these systems without severely limiting what people can do with their servers, which I do not want to do.

So, again, not saying you did or are planning on doing anything of that nature, just making sure you know our stance on it.
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XGII

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Re: Why am I a DEV?
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2017, 09:40:43 AM »

Right clearly I was in the wrong for having a channel being watched by dev teams. The game is a mod therefore I can mod it and is inside your dev folder. Was only a matter of time some one was to eventually start modding a mod. I made the game have more things that should have been added already. But I did it for you, glad you can quote mate. Try reading that post a little slower because it has a very "clear" and "obvious" message.

You guys come from counter strike (for whatever reason I'll never know) and I come from Quake which has every little thing that I've been adding to the game. Source is a build off of the Quake engine soooooo having to explain and paint a picture is very very hard since you wanna bring "last week" up.

How can I ever get banned if I never did anything to the game? you left the folder and one of your skins can become a brightskin. I already found a solution for when you guys fix your game. Show some humility mate! Again stop acting like this. You really are "clearly" and "obviously" showing how you feel towards your own community.

Pretty sure I can also make your character models vertexed like they should be. I'm in no way close to being in the wrong on this. What I have done is basically made your "mod" not game your "mod". Not your mod anymore. I don't use your music, I made the characters sound like the n64 character (like they should have been), I've made variety of distinction based on personal preference when shooting other players. I've changed all your guns to sound like perfect dark, and finally the best part about everything. Is I've made your game more "competitive". I'm bringing  much variety and makes me wonder what people thought way back in the day when bright models were first introduced in the Quake community. Probably the same thing that is happening right now.

Think everyone needs to watch some George Carlin and kinda relax .. yah know?

For all you devs know is that sooner or later everyone will have these brightskins and eventually you will all come around. And maybe then the "humility" will finally come to be.

*Try not to live in the past as if it holds some form of credibility. when you and your other buddy buddy dev there were calling me a hacker and stalking my channel to afraid to actually confront me and not even close to admitting you have been purposely posting videos to have me banned on other servers. I say what I want and how it is. Going into the shadows to do certain things makes you no better. Also kinda means you've admitted to the above as well. Again humility is key mate. George Carlin.*
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XGII

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Re: Why am I a DEV?
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2017, 09:56:52 AM »

Just a little observation for you to based upon your comment. You didn't address anything other than the very end which you wanted to address. And vaguely addressed it to with literally nothing based upon the actual message. Goes to show the blinders people decide to wear.

Also for your Entropy-Soldier. I didn't distastefully hijack anything. Man it's hard repeating myself when all it takes is a few renames of a file here and a file there. You are a counter strike and I'm a quake guy. We will never see eye to eye. But again everything you saw was left inside your guys dev folder within materials. That along with one of your rocket launcher skins can have the values changed by the R G B settings in the file to change the color and brightness.

I don't wanna say this but it seems I have to ....... Don't .... You ...... Know ........ Your ..... Own ....... Game?????

distasteful: causing dislike or disgust; offensive; unpleasant.

hijacking: illegally seize (files) and force it to go to a different destination or use it for one's own purposes.

Variety: is a principle of design that refers to a way of combining visual elements to achieve intricate and complex relationships. It is a technique used by artists who wish to increase the visual interest of their work.

Distinction: a difference or contrast between similar things or people.

Visual aid: an item of illustrative matter, such as a film, slide, or model, designed to supplement written or spoken information so that it can be understood more easily.

^^^So to me it's art ... ^^^And for you ... I guess it doesn't really make sense? .... But to each their own, and opinion is such a sin I must say.
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soupcan

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Re: Why am I a DEV?
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2017, 10:13:36 AM »

Regardless what you might think about these "mods of a mod", it's still distastefully modifying things to give you an (even if perceived) advantage or to, in the case of this thread, misrepresent the mod and its creators (even if it's not necessarily your doing, the point still stands). It shouldn't need any debate why that might be wrong or why we don't encourage this sort of behavior.

You've been warned multiple times for this and other things, and yet you still continue. Your account is banned from posting indefinitely.
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Entropy-Soldier

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Re: Why am I a DEV?
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2017, 10:56:54 AM »

Also for your Entropy-Soldier. I didn't distastefully hijack anything. Man it's hard repeating myself when all it takes is a few renames of a file here and a file there. You are a counter strike and I'm a quake guy. We will never see eye to eye. But again everything you saw was left inside your guys dev folder within materials. That along with one of your rocket launcher skins can have the values changed by the R G B settings in the file to change the color and brightness.

Please note that in my post I was talking directly to null, not to you.  It starts with a quote from him and it talks entirely about server modification with the stated course of action being to blacklist a server.  While we don't approve of certain mods you've made to your client, we have little interest in banning people for stuff like that.  We merely did not want you to distribute such mods as it violated the rules of the community releases section.  Beyond that, the only thing you've done that warranted administrative action is to completely misinterpret everything we've tried to tell you and proceed to go on some sort of crusade against us.

You're not banned for your client mods, though they're certainly in an ethically grey area and aren't going to be looked fondly upon, they alone do not warrant any punitive action.  You have been banned because ever since we stopped you from distributing them through our own official channels you've been trying to provoke us and cause trouble.  Please understand that we don't want to do this to anyone, but letting you constantly cause trouble on our forums reflects badly on us and our project.  I was really hoping things would turn around but clearly not.


For the record:

Tasteful client side mods are completely fine!  I actually play with a few of these, and I love some of the ones our community has made.
Distasteful client side mods will be frowned upon, but administrative action will be limited to restricting their distribution.

Distasteful client side mods can be considered anything that has a primary purpose of giving players an unfair advantage in-game.  Brightskins and wallhack skins fall under this category.  Client side scripts that use the source engine's scripting system are fine.  Anything that abuses an exploit is not.
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CptLima

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Re: Why am I a DEV?
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2017, 01:50:43 PM »

The game is a mod therefore I can mod it and is inside your dev folder. Was only a matter of time some one was to eventually start modding a mod.

Yeah... it's a mod... but it's THEIR mod, and no matter how much you or anyone else mods it, they spent infinitely more time developing and perfecting it... so, as a member of the community that you claim they don't respect, I trust their judgement when they something is not a good idea.

Think everyone needs to watch some George Carlin and kinda relax .. yah know?

Yeah... I think in the amount of time you've spent typing responses on this one meaningless topic, you could have watched 3 or 4 entire George Carlin HBO specials... so if anyone needs to relax, it's probably you... especially your over-the-top, righteous indignation over being called out for something (fake DEV tags) that, in the grand scheme of things, amounts to utter nonsense.

I love this mod, particularly because it's so faithful to the original game we all loved, and it's successful because of what this Dev Team did over many years to build it... please don't be one of the people who dilutes and compromises it because it doesn't conform to your arbitrary standards.
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Re: Why am I a DEV?
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2017, 06:51:03 PM »

Well if you ban him for no reason, you might as well ban me....

Honestly, you guys jumped to conclusions, and didn't even consider all the possibilities before you bashed and flamed him, that's some great work there.

I could have said nothing and this thread would have fallen into the boneyard of dead threads, but because we were honest about what happened, we are punished and/or threatened?   I offered my skills in friendship months ago, and i even asked for "Dev" tags, but you only wanted to make enemies out of the "outsiders" including modders and the rest of the community.

I have been disrespected and threatened for stating my own opinions in the official channels (Like: e.g. Jump vs Crosshair)  but called out for "starting drama" and then being antagonize by morons like soupcan.  When i ask questions on discord I'm either ignored or told to "Read the sourcecode", and that's exactly what i did.

In reality, modding cannot be prevented, anyone from anywhere, can do anything, because the sourcecode has been released. It will be changed, if not by me or XGII, by someone else. This is a development planning problem, not a community problem.

Dev's I've said this before, but you should reevaluate what you want out of this mod before burning people at the stake, in your eyes you should see that whatever can go wrong will go wrong, and know what possibilities exist for people to come along and change things.

XGII did nothing wrong in this post to warrant a ban,  if you are going to consider things he did previously, why wasn't he already banned?
That makes absolutely no sense??? This auction  is out of spite, and resemblance of horrible leadership, and a perfect example of the current Dev's relationship with the community, 

Even if he was banned for something legitimate, this post should have been locked immediate afterwards,  now the doors wide open to talk Sh*t at XGII when he didn't do anything, and I'm pretty sure even he could keep playing he won't know, so its almost as good as if you did completely ban him.

Thanks to the previous contributors and Dev's for making this game awesome, not so much for the current Dev's that are F'ing up the game for everyone, and not listening to the community.
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Entropy-Soldier

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Re: Why am I a DEV?
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2017, 08:14:04 PM »

I left this post open for you to respond, actually, considering I called you out not anticipating that it would go in a completely different direction like that.  I agree that it's not the -best- way of doing things but I figured it wouldn't be fair to deny you a chance to explain yourself or ask for clarification.  Obviously you disagree and I'll keep that in mind for the future.


I don't agree nearly as much with the rest of your post.  Honestly we've made a great effort to be nice to you, I can't think of any instances of us aiming to upset or insult you.  Any time I've told you to "read the source code" it's been because you were pretty much already doing that and snooping around with systems you shouldn't.  Why would I help you crack into our skins system and devalue one of our player rewards?  I was hoping you would take the hint but clearly you think you have some sort of moral privilege to do so because it's -technically- possible.  If everyone thought like this, society would have never gotten past the stone age since it's -technically- possible to do pretty much anything and it's society's fault that you can, right?

Changing server binaries falls outside the scope of what is intended to be moddable in a source engine game.  If you were to do this in TF2 or any other valve game your servers would be black listed, and knowing valve they'd probably go further than that.  Same with cosmetics.  These are intended to be used to reward players for certain things and generate interest in the game through promotional events.  Giving skins out through your own hacked binaries completely undermines this for the benefit of your own server.  Any sensible game developer cracks down on this stuff as quickly as they sniff it out because letting it run rampant can destroy their game.  Sadly I didn't think we'd ever need it, so I don't have a server blacklist system in place yet, but that's generally the go-to for this kind of thing.  5.1 will have one and that will be our solution to this kind of thing if it ever comes to that. 


"I offered my skills in friendship months ago, and i even asked for "Dev" tags, but you only wanted to make enemies out of the "outsiders" including modders and the rest of the community. "

We played some hockey, you asked to join the team as a coder, and I told you that we weren't looking for coders or even actively expanding the team at that moment.  If that's all it takes to make an enemy out of you then you would have never made it on the team anyway.  We constantly criticize eachother and there are rules everyone has to follow, something you don't seem to believe in.  The dev tag itself is mostly to let people know that we're the people to talk to if they have any questions or want to report any bugs.  It's not some medal of honor that you suddenly "deserve" for whatever reason.  If you're not in regular contact with the dev team you should not have it because you do not represent us and are not capable of acting on our behalf.  Asking for one first doesn't give you a casus beli to hack one in.


As for XGII, I take full responsibility.  Everyone wanted to ban him much sooner and I told them we had to stick to the guidelines given in the forum rules and give him a warning and temp ban first.  These obviously had no effect and he continued to do what we explicitly told him not to, but I was kind of hoping something would happen and he would turn things around.  With this thread and plenty of other actions of his it became obvious that was not going to happen.  There has to be a cutoff -somewhere-.  99 is less than 100 but add one more and it's not.  I really try to give people a chance to have a change of heart but I guess it just leads to messy situations like this one.

That being said let me make that mistake one more time and give you another chance to turn things around:
    - Don't give yourself a dev tag
    - Run only official GE:S server binaries
    - Don't give out special skins


At the end of the day yes, this stuff is incredibly easy to do.  Many people could figure out how in a day or two.  And yet you're the first in nearly a year since the release of 5.0 + the several years since 4.2 became open source to do so.  This is because there's an implicit contract that the dev team has control of and responsibility for these things.  If you start respecting this right now, then you can remain in good standing with us and everything will be fine.  If you insist on following this path then I guess I'll just have to correct my previous poor development planning as soon as possible.

I'll give you a chance to respond and then we'll take this to discord/PMs if there's any real reason to continue.  Topic will be locked and archived after that in part for the reasons you've given.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 08:27:32 PM by Entropy-Soldier »
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soupcan

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Re: Why am I a DEV?
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2017, 08:17:02 PM »

It was made clear to him in multiple warnings what he was doing wrong. We stand by our decision to ban him.

As for the rest of the post, it seems that you like to make enemies out of anyone who doesn't agree with you. Perhaps the most egregious example is this:

called out for "starting drama" and then being antagonize by morons like soupcan.

For those who were not there to witness it, he attempted to start drama with snarky comments after I made a simple statement.



The monkey business he was referring to was something I literally never wrote a message on, only added to someone else's "reaction" on Discord out of humor. I wrote him a PM asking him to stop, to which his response was to publicly post the PM with the comment "eat me":



That is, to my memory, the extent of my communication with null. If that's all it takes to feel antagonized, then I don't want to live on this planet any more.
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Re: Why am I a DEV?
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2017, 04:41:47 PM »

If that's all it takes to feel antagonized, then I don't want to live on this planet any more.

Well I've never thought of being Hannibal Lecter, making his cellmate neighbor swallow his own tongue, but your last statement there sounds a bit psychotic. I'd recommend you seek psychological professional help if you feel like hurting yourself or someone else before you act on your impulses.  Seriously, that strikes a historical cord, and a horrible statement due to past events, what would Nickster say?
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Re: Why am I a DEV?
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2017, 04:41:55 PM »

I left this post open for you to respond, actually, considering I called you out not anticipating that it would go in a completely different direction like that...
 
I appreciate you leaving the thread open for me to respond, but seems how this is an ultimatum, there's really no reason to continue. Its a binary decision that you have given me.  Either i follow your demands or i don't, and face certain consequences, whether its a meaningless threat or not.

Quote
Any time I've told you to "read the source code" it's been because you were pretty much already doing that and snooping around with systems you shouldn't

And come on, this is `ex post facto`, you're only making this claim because you just found out i made these modifications, if you already knew i was "snooping" you would have said something or someone from the team.  Beside that your sourcecode taunts people to modify skins: 



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Changing server binaries falls outside the scope of what is intended to be moddable in a source engine game.
 
To be clear, i never changed any binaries, including the server or the client,  this is another example of you, and your counterparts jumping to conclusions again.

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We played some hockey, you asked to join the team as a coder, and I told you that we weren't looking for coders or even actively expanding the team at that moment.

Actually i remember you asking me: "Is there anything i can do for you?"  and i asked if i could have dev tags and you said i could apply as an applicant, and i said:  "okay then, i guess beside that, i just want to play the game and have fun."  and you said,  "well i don't think anyone can take that away from you" 

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As for XGII, I take full responsibility.

Look i understand you have to stick up for your team members rash decisions with XGII, but my question still remains, why did this thread/post count towards XGII's 100 out of 100 ban? all he did was ask a question, that it all. I understand once you make a decision its hard to go back on it, but seriously he should be given a Billy Martin, he played by the rules, all he did was change his own client. I'm sorry but there's no way to take responsibility, and then ban him at the same time.
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That being said let me make that mistake one more time and give you another chance to turn things around:
I have a quote for you:  “You can never make the same mistake twice because the second time you make it, it's not a mistake, it's a choice.” ― Steven Denn

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    - Don't give yourself a dev tag
    - Run only official GE:S server binaries
    - Don't give out special skins

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At the end of the day yes, this stuff is incredibly easy to do.  Many people could figure out how in a day or two.  And yet you're the first in nearly a year since the release of 5.0 + the several years since 4.2 became open source to do so.  This is because there's an implicit contract that the dev team has control of and responsibility for these things.  If you start respecting this right now, then you can remain in good standing with us and everything will be fine.  If you insist on following this path then I guess I'll just have to correct my previous poor development planning as soon as possible.

Well if more dev's play on servers then great!  Even if they are checking for modifications imho that's still a win for the community. So if that happens I'd surely drop tags and skins on my servers.  I don't know what contract you are speaking of, but I'm not disrespecting you or the game, i can do whatever i want on my own computers/servers and if you feel like you want to do more development on the game and improve it, that's another win for the community, and i hope you do that. 

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I'll give you a chance to respond and then we'll take this to discord/PMs if there's any real reason to continue.  Topic will be locked and archived after that in part for the reasons you've given.

Well, thank you for listening, i hope that happens more from everyone on the Dev team.

-----
Null

QUOTE:  "A very common aspect of psychological abuse and manipulation is for the abuser to claim that the victim is being abusive towards them."

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Entropy-Soldier

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Re: Why am I a DEV?
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2017, 05:43:58 PM »

Yep, you're right, I was delivering an ultimatum to you and that's why I was giving you just one more response.  Your choices were to decline and have your servers blacklisted as soon as we are able to do so, or back off and respect these incredibly simple wishes.  My reasoning was made very clear in my last post so I'm not going to restate anything, but just...wow.  I never thought you'd be able to come up with a third option, which is to attempt to piss off everyone on the dev team by taking a joke from Futurama and turning it into a stab at the founder of the project.

Even if you're not modifying the binaries, which was an easy interpretation to have since you referenced the source code being accessible for modification many times, you're still giving out dev tags and reward skins which are the other two things I've explicitly said we do not want you to do.  The comment in the source code was mostly made under the assumption that people would use it to reverse engineer one specific thing which I considered harmless.  I was legitimately congratulating them because if they figured that out then I don't mind them giving themselves the one skin possible to gain with that method.  I kind of assumed anyone with the ability to set up a server and analyze the source code would know not to compromise that investment by directly going against the obvious interests of the dev team but clearly I was wrong and need to keep this in mind for all my future projects.

Anyway, if you're paying for your servers on a monthly basis I'd recommend you avoid renewing them.  Depending on which route we decide to take, and how much of a problem you decide to be, the blacklisting feature I was talking about will either come out in a patch sometime soon or when we're ready to release 5.1.  At that time your servers will be blacklisted and nobody will be able to play on them.  I cannot convey just how much I don't want to do this, because people apparently like your server and you seem to enjoy the game enough to modify it, but not doing so establishes a very dangerous precedent.  There are boundaries with things like this, and if they're not enforced when someone tests the waters then they'll erode very quickly and take the game down with them.

Please understand my position here.  I don't hate you, I don't want to hurt you, and I really wish I didn't have to do this, but I would be grossly neglecting my responsibilities if I did not.  It's a loss for GE:S either way, but given the options my choice is pretty much made for me.  Given that, you will still be allowed to play GE:S and post on the forums provided you don't cause any more trouble, but understand that everyone is ready to be done with this so this is your final warning.  Cause any more trouble, or anything we can even construe as trouble, and your account is getting permanently banned.  I would recommend not posting for a while on the off chance we misinterpret your intentions. 

If it's not -incredibly- obvious everyone wants me to ban you for what you've already said but I would like to at least give you the option to continue to play GE:S and be a part of the community if you so desire, as long as you never host a server again.  I will never understand how you decided having dev tags on your own servers for a short while was worth forcing the dev team to shut them down but now that's the road everyone gets to travel.  It's provides almost no benefit to you and causes a great deal of trouble for people you want to be on good terms with.  Do the people on your server even care at all about something like that?  Or did they just like the environment you provided for them and the community you built?  I seriously doubt any of them think being able to give some people a dev tag is worth compromising their community, but I guess it's not their choice to make.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2017, 05:49:11 PM by Entropy-Soldier »
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