GoldenEye: Source Forums

  • May 22, 2017, 04:12:05 PM
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Why is the invulnerability Removed?  (Read 829 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

RogerMooreSucks

  • 00 Agent
  • ***
  • Posts: 244
  • Reputation Power: 0
  • RogerMooreSucks is looked down upon.RogerMooreSucks is looked down upon.RogerMooreSucks is looked down upon.RogerMooreSucks is looked down upon.RogerMooreSucks is looked down upon.RogerMooreSucks is looked down upon.RogerMooreSucks is looked down upon.RogerMooreSucks is looked down upon.RogerMooreSucks is looked down upon.RogerMooreSucks is looked down upon.RogerMooreSucks is looked down upon.RogerMooreSucks is looked down upon.
  • Offline Offline
Why is the invulnerability Removed?
« on: November 28, 2016, 08:27:16 AM »

I want to know why that has been removed, don't say it hasn't been. I can tell it has. I think you removed due to all the crybabies that can't get kills without some special handicap. Learn to play the game and over time you will get good. It may take a while but being good at something should not be easy to gain, it takes hard work and dedication. The game is now ruined and it takes no skills to be good at this game. That is one of the worst decision I think you made. It was in the original game, there should been no reason why is was removed. It was perfect in 4.2.4 and other previous version of this mod. The spawn system is still terrible and needs major work beyond belief. The reason I bring up the spawning system issue is that due to there not being invulnerability time you can never escape a bad spawn and 95% of the time you get killed. That right there makes me and most people not want to play the game and simple uninstall it. 4.2.4 was the best version. The game now is completely different is many aspects, such as strafing, which is nice but you "REALLY" need to implement invulnerability time again. The game is simple not fun or correct without it in place. 
Logged
Troy, get back on that treadmill

Torn

  • Moderator
  • Level Designer
  • Secret Agent
  • *****
  • Posts: 77
  • Reputation Power: 141
  • Torn is awe-inspiring!Torn is awe-inspiring!Torn is awe-inspiring!Torn is awe-inspiring!Torn is awe-inspiring!Torn is awe-inspiring!Torn is awe-inspiring!Torn is awe-inspiring!Torn is awe-inspiring!Torn is awe-inspiring!Torn is awe-inspiring!Torn is awe-inspiring!
  • Offline Offline
Re: Why is the invulnerability Removed?
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2016, 09:00:36 AM »

4.2 was far from perfect. In its previous state invulnerability was a confusing mechanic that only rewarded certain weapons and sidelined others. Automatic weapons were essentially handicapped by it, as there was no reason to sustain automatic fire over tap firing single shots because invulnerability simply negated the majority of those shots. It was in the original game only because it was a leftover mechanic from single player that was in place to prevent the player from being shredded by groups of enemies in half a second.

The weapon statistics were re-balanced for 5.0 to support the changes to the invulnerability system, which does still exist, albeit in a less intrusive way. Sustained automatic fire is now actually viable, whereas in the old system you would essentially fire off 30 rounds and only 3 or 4 might land. This rewards proper aiming, and gives all the weapons proper strengths and weaknesses. No longer is tap firing single shots objectively the best way to dispatch someone.

There is also an invulnerability period after spawning, so no you don't get immediately mowed down when you spawn in.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2016, 09:05:03 AM by Torn »
Logged
Official Releases: Dam / Egyptian
Community Releases: Quake - E1M7 / Blockfort

RogerMooreSucks

  • 00 Agent
  • ***
  • Posts: 244
  • Reputation Power: 0
  • RogerMooreSucks is looked down upon.RogerMooreSucks is looked down upon.RogerMooreSucks is looked down upon.RogerMooreSucks is looked down upon.RogerMooreSucks is looked down upon.RogerMooreSucks is looked down upon.RogerMooreSucks is looked down upon.RogerMooreSucks is looked down upon.RogerMooreSucks is looked down upon.RogerMooreSucks is looked down upon.RogerMooreSucks is looked down upon.RogerMooreSucks is looked down upon.
  • Offline Offline
Re: Why is the invulnerability Removed?
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2016, 10:28:36 AM »

Let me put this a little bit more simpler for you.


The invulnerability is awful, and does not work well with the gameplay.


Fix it.

« Last Edit: November 28, 2016, 10:31:14 AM by RogerMooreSucks »
Logged
Troy, get back on that treadmill

codemaster94

  • [S] codemaster94 [1138]
  • Secret Agent
  • **
  • Posts: 121
  • Reputation Power: 4
  • codemaster94 has no influence.
  • Offline Offline
    • Steam Account
Re: Why is the invulnerability Removed?
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2016, 07:31:35 PM »

Let me put this a little bit more simpler for you.


The invulnerability is awful, and does not work well with the gameplay.


Fix it.



You've got balls, I'll give you that.
Logged

JohnRDVSMarston

  • Agent
  • *
  • Posts: 23
  • Reputation Power: 17
  • JohnRDVSMarston is working their way up.JohnRDVSMarston is working their way up.JohnRDVSMarston is working their way up.
  • Offline Offline
    • YouTube Channel
Re: Why is the invulnerability Removed?
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2017, 05:55:26 AM »

Well, I don't know if I should do this, but let's go:

1st: They aren't your slaves, man. They are doing that to the community and for the community, not to make people frown and start yelling at each other's faces at every problem down the road. Hell, they aren't even paid for that! Saying "FIX IT!" won't do... But since I think that you came to blurt this 5 seconds after having this happenings to you, it's understandable (at least, for me) and I suggest you to calm down... Take a good ol' Passion Fruit Juice. It's good for tension moments!

2nd: I agree a bit with you, in regards of the invulnerability times not working properly, since you are still mowed down... But it's better than before, being your POV the one mowed down or the mower itself (but in that case, for me, you can't please much Greeks and Trojans. There isn't much of a gray area for this. One of them will step up to critic it, one day or another).

I have a thought for that: What if, besides having time invulnerability, you have for place as well? Like an:
If (time=>1,875s) && (place==spawnpoint) {
invul();
} else {
carryOn();
}

...well, probably the code it's like that, if not sort of... What I'm trying to say is that the invulnerability will both be bounded by place and time. If the newborn entity walks off the spawnpoint or wait long enough, "invul" is a goner.

Well... there's my opinion.

A bit off-topic: Does the spawnpoint have a player detection? That could help in stopping the spawncamp a bit.
Logged
Try-to-be programmer, voice artist, designer, compositor and writer... But, let's be serious: I'm gonna be a unnamed corpse like many others anyway...

Post-scriptum: Forgot to add "party-pooper" and "melancholic", but I believe you already got that...

Mangley

  • Leads The Art
  • Lead Artist
  • 007
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,826
  • Reputation Power: 215
  • Mangley is awe-inspiring!Mangley is awe-inspiring!Mangley is awe-inspiring!Mangley is awe-inspiring!Mangley is awe-inspiring!Mangley is awe-inspiring!Mangley is awe-inspiring!Mangley is awe-inspiring!Mangley is awe-inspiring!Mangley is awe-inspiring!Mangley is awe-inspiring!Mangley is awe-inspiring!
  • Offline Offline
Re: Why is the invulnerability Removed?
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2017, 07:09:56 AM »

For clarity's sake there are two kinds of invuln in GE:S: Spawn invuln which protects you from damage and hides you from the radar for a few seconds after you spawn, and damage cap invulnerability which limits the rate at which different weapons can land damage on you.

A lot of players don't seem to have learned that shooting/attacking others breaks their spawn invulnerability, we're trying to improve messaging on this. The idea is when you spawn you have a good chance to avoid enemies and find a better weapon. (Spawn invuln does not exist in LTK because people are not spawning disadvantaged)

Also depending on what server you've been playing on your mileage will vary. We have a sophisticated spawn algorithm that will try to spawn you away from any enemies, away from any locations where players have recently been killed, and closer to better weapons or armor as far as I understand it (E-S could give you more accurate specifics) but the spawning algorithm breaks down at improper playercounts and also depends on the map in a lot of ways.

 The only complaints we've seen about spawncamping are people playing on poor server setups, e.g 32 players or forcing map choices that are too small for the number of players which means in a lot of maps there simply aren't any places in the map where you can spawn outside of line of sight of an enemy. Since all our maps are based on maps from the original game we're limited in how scaleable we can make them without completely diverging and at that point we're no longer making GoldenEye maps. This is a big part of our reason for capping the player count to 16 once 5.1 rolls out, it's something we meant to do with 5.0 but we had to draw a line somewhere and further improvements held back for 5.1.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 07:13:20 AM by Mangley »
Logged
Concept Artist, Environment Artist, Effects Artist, Sound Designer

JohnRDVSMarston

  • Agent
  • *
  • Posts: 23
  • Reputation Power: 17
  • JohnRDVSMarston is working their way up.JohnRDVSMarston is working their way up.JohnRDVSMarston is working their way up.
  • Offline Offline
    • YouTube Channel
Re: Why is the invulnerability Removed?
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2017, 12:55:39 PM »

Mmkay. I thought there wasn't that type of algorithm, but it seems I was wrong... Thanks for the information :D


Post-scriptum:If I made you "off your spot", like kind of angry, then sorry... sometimes I try to say things and, sometimes, it goes a bit aggressive or sarcastical, when I'm trying to say something with a cool head or literal (respectively); Plus that I upped an post almost going down (for good); In addition with how it ended (with, y'know, "FIX IT! [HiddenAngrySmile]"). I was kind of insecure (more than normal) to debate this here, so... Yeah, I believe you can kind of get my train of thought... anyway, sorry again. Have a nice day.
Logged
Try-to-be programmer, voice artist, designer, compositor and writer... But, let's be serious: I'm gonna be a unnamed corpse like many others anyway...

Post-scriptum: Forgot to add "party-pooper" and "melancholic", but I believe you already got that...

Mangley

  • Leads The Art
  • Lead Artist
  • 007
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,826
  • Reputation Power: 215
  • Mangley is awe-inspiring!Mangley is awe-inspiring!Mangley is awe-inspiring!Mangley is awe-inspiring!Mangley is awe-inspiring!Mangley is awe-inspiring!Mangley is awe-inspiring!Mangley is awe-inspiring!Mangley is awe-inspiring!Mangley is awe-inspiring!Mangley is awe-inspiring!Mangley is awe-inspiring!
  • Offline Offline
Re: Why is the invulnerability Removed?
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2017, 03:27:45 PM »

Post-scriptum:If I made you "off your spot", like kind of angry, then sorry... sometimes I try to say things and, sometimes, it goes a bit aggressive or sarcastical, when I'm trying to say something with a cool head or literal (respectively); Plus that I upped an post almost going down (for good); In addition with how it ended (with, y'know, "FIX IT! [HiddenAngrySmile]"). I was kind of insecure (more than normal) to debate this here, so... Yeah, I believe you can kind of get my train of thought... anyway, sorry again. Have a nice day.


It didn't come across negatively at all :) but thank you for being mindful. It's usually fairly clear when people are being deliberately brash.

Have a nice day!
Logged
Concept Artist, Environment Artist, Effects Artist, Sound Designer

El Dudereno

  • Secret Agent
  • **
  • Posts: 94
  • Reputation Power: 15
  • El Dudereno is working their way up.El Dudereno is working their way up.El Dudereno is working their way up.
  • Offline Offline
Re: Why is the invulnerability Removed?
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2017, 03:09:42 AM »

Roger comes off abrasive at times, I know, but he has a point.  I also agree with Mangley that the player count needs to be reduced to minimize the ridiculous amount of spawn killing that occurs now.  Maybe there should be limits set for each map depending on the map size.  Maps like Surface are way better with more players but even 16 players on Basement is retarded.  Remember the original maps were meant to be played with only up to 4 players.
Logged

Enzo.Matrix

  • Lead Public Relations
  • GE:S Fanatic
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,072
  • Reputation Power: 133
  • Enzo.Matrix is awe-inspiring!Enzo.Matrix is awe-inspiring!Enzo.Matrix is awe-inspiring!Enzo.Matrix is awe-inspiring!Enzo.Matrix is awe-inspiring!Enzo.Matrix is awe-inspiring!Enzo.Matrix is awe-inspiring!Enzo.Matrix is awe-inspiring!Enzo.Matrix is awe-inspiring!Enzo.Matrix is awe-inspiring!Enzo.Matrix is awe-inspiring!Enzo.Matrix is awe-inspiring!
  • Offline Offline
Re: Why is the invulnerability Removed?
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2017, 04:27:46 AM »

This is why there is a difference between the classic and what we called neo levels.  The new basement has more space and more obstacles to hide behind.  Not to also forget some extra pathing.
Logged
GoldenEye: Source Co-Creator
Personal Mission: After we are out of BETA get GE:S reviewed by Yahtzee  -still working on it
Pages: [1]   Go Up