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RogerMooreSucks

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Cinema 4D to SDK hammer?
« on: March 07, 2015, 02:28:33 PM »

I was wondering if anyone knows how to export 3D mountains from cinema 4D to hammer? I really do appreciate the help.
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Re: Cinema 4D to SDK hammer?
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2015, 04:11:52 PM »

The fastest and easiest way to export models from C4D is the plugin I/Ogre.
I'd also recomend Vertex Normal Tool lite to 'bake' the phong-tag smoothing into a normals Tag.

Materials should have the Name of the .vmt you're going to assign to the model.
Geometry should be triangulated before applying the Normal Tag.

If you need to know more about the structural setup of the file, just import an smd with the plugin and pay attention to the hierarchy and tags in the Object Manager Window.

Collision Models have to be assembled from convex shapes and you need to apply a phong angle of 180° to them.

Cinema is rendering the backface of the polygons by default, but you can disable that in the viewport options of the 3d viewport
or just use the polygon mode and "select all" from the selection menue.
Now the front faces will be tinted orange while the back of them is tinted blue.

You'll end up with one or several exported .smd Objects that can be compiled to a model using a .qc file.

For your Mountains you won't need any collision, so you will be fine with only one smd.
Keep in mind that there are polygon/vertex limits for source engine models.
(according to the vdc: 17,433 vertices and 2048 texture size for a single model)
Ofc. it's better to not hit these limits if it isn't absolutly necessary.
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Re: Cinema 4D to SDK hammer?
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2015, 04:25:57 PM »

Edit: I figured it out. Thanks.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2015, 04:34:37 PM by RogerMooreSucks »
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Re: Cinema 4D to SDK hammer?
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2015, 10:29:00 AM »

Hello. I am not having an issue converting the .SMD file to MDL. I tried countless times to make the .QC file but everytime i go to compile it gives me this error: SteamStartup() failed: SteamAPI_Init_Internal failed. I really have no idea what to do. Here is the .smd file if you want to help me create the QC file so i can compile this bloody thing. Here is the link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/guitgz8bthztdml/SnowBlind_Mountains.zip?dl=0. I have done a bunch of research and i know that this compile thing should be simple but i am wasting to much time on this. I made this mountains so damn beautiful i would hate for them to go to waste. I don't like asking for help but i feel this is necessary. Thanks if you can spare me your time. You will be credited.
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Re: Cinema 4D to SDK hammer?
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2015, 10:44:13 PM »

How the hell did you create a 500MB .smd file?
Even if i go far above the triangle/vertex limits with a landscape object, i cannot even reach 1/10 of that size.

You're either doing something absolutly wrong, or trying to fool us one more time.
And i ain't got time for the second possibility.
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Re: Cinema 4D to SDK hammer?
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2015, 02:10:18 PM »

Finally got solace on what was going on. by the way my .smd file is now only 100 megabytes now. When i dragged my QC file on the new StudioMDL.exe it told me that i had too many indices in source. My question is how would i go about fixing this error? Is my polygon count to much? I does one check the polygon count on a model?
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Re: Cinema 4D to SDK hammer?
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2015, 11:47:10 PM »

Seriously, 100MB equals something arround 300.000 polygons. Far to much for source.
You can show the polycount for instance in the Object Manager (hierarchic window on the right) under Object>Object Information.

Binging down the polycount to an acceptable level is neccessary, the way of doing it depends a lot on the model itself.

Quick example:

Wireframe view:


While the mountain in front has over 2 million Quads, the one in the back only consists of 8192 triangles.
The rest is achived by the normalmap that was baked right from the highpoly sculpted object to the lowpoly one.

I seriously think that the background mountains for a map could be done with even much less polycount,
but this would also take more then 10 minutes of editing.
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Re: Cinema 4D to SDK hammer?
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2015, 09:40:25 AM »

Thanks for the help Kraid. You were right my polygons amount was massive lol. I have reduces it to around 9,000 and it still looks great. It compiles but i check the folder where i set the model to be and it doesn't make a file?
« Last Edit: March 11, 2015, 12:17:48 PM by RogerMooreSucks »
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Re: Cinema 4D to SDK hammer?
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2015, 12:51:27 PM »

UPDATE: I figured it all out. I had to do some major tweaking. Thanks for all your help Kraid.
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Re: Cinema 4D to SDK hammer?
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2015, 01:43:26 PM »

I just have one finally question. How i do i export the textures I  used for the snow mountain? The textures were within cinema 4D. I tried to locate the folder for their textures but i couldn't find it. Or is there another way to get the textures on the actual prop so you don't have to use VTFedit to put custom textures...
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Re: Cinema 4D to SDK hammer?
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2015, 07:39:56 PM »

Are we taking about bitmap textures or shader Materials from the content browser?

If your Material has bitmaps assigned, they can be found under the path that is referenced in the Material.
But i bet that you are using a Multilayered shader from the Content Browser.

These often consist of procedural noise paterns and effects.
They are no Texture, they won't work outside C4D, but...

C4D has a feature called "bake texture", which is able to render most of these effects to a bitmap texture
that can be exported.

In Object Manager, right Click on your Model, from the pull down menu select Cinema 4D tags>bake texture.
Now your model has a new Tag that allowes you to bake all the nice effects to a texture.
Your model needs to be UV mapped for this to work.
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Re: Cinema 4D to SDK hammer?
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2015, 12:07:44 PM »

Hey Kraid. I am having an issue texturing the mountains. I know how to texture custom models and i made the necessary vmt and vmf files and linked it to the model but when i launch SDK and add the it the prop is invisible. I double checked everything to make sure but nothing seems to work. i checked the collison model and the lines are there but no model. Any suggestions? I just baked all the textures into one so what do i do now?
« Last Edit: March 12, 2015, 12:25:23 PM by RogerMooreSucks »
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kraid

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Re: Cinema 4D to SDK hammer?
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2015, 06:16:27 AM »

The Model is invisible in Editor/Model Viewer or ingame?
Is the prop visible without textures?

In the first case, it might be related to the face normals.
Make sure that the polygons face normals are pointing in the right direction.
In C4D select all polygons in Polygon mode, orange tint means frontside, blue tint is the backface.
Right click on the selection to bring up the context-menue where you have "align normals" and "reverse normals" commands.
Make sure all faces on the frontside are tinted orange.

Second case would point towards a missmatching prop type (e.g. a prop compiled as prop_physics used with a prop_static entity).

Third case would be an issue with the material settings, e.g. translucence or alpha enabled with a black alphachannel or wrong shader.
(please post your vmt in that case)

On a sidenote, a mountain prop that is used in the skybox won't need a collision model at all, you'll never physically interact with it anyway.

Just to rule out a few more common mistakes:

- make sure that the pivot of the mesh is reset to the world origin (in Axis modify mode (press L), set position to x=0 y=0 z=0)
- make sure the scale of the object is right.
- if you scaled the object in the coordinate manager (any other value then 1 in size xyz), make sure to freeze the transformations.
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RogerMooreSucks

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Re: Cinema 4D to SDK hammer?
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2015, 01:38:09 PM »

I did everything you told me to do but this is what happens http://i.imgur.com/eNuhu2w.png. Here are the vmf's you requested with the location of the files https://www.dropbox.com/s/kijr3gag34nfzwb/Snowblind%20MountainsTexture%20with%20File%20Locations.zip?dl=0
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kraid

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Re: Cinema 4D to SDK hammer?
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2015, 11:59:11 PM »

You have to use the VertexLitGeneric shader for Props not the LightmappedGeneric.
Right now you might be able to see it in wireframe mode only.
After changing the shader to an appropriate format, it should show up.
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Re: Cinema 4D to SDK hammer?
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2015, 07:38:48 AM »

How to i change it to "VertexLitGeneric" in VTFedit?
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Re: Cinema 4D to SDK hammer?
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2015, 07:48:04 AM »

OUCH. You seriouse?

Just edit that damn .vmt with a text editor.
Or choose VertexLitGeneric from the list of shaders in the VMT create options Tab.
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Re: Cinema 4D to SDK hammer?
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2015, 07:56:29 AM »

OUCH. You seriouse?

Just edit that damn .vmt with a text editor.
Or choose VertexLitGeneric from the list of shaders in the VMT create options Tab.

lol i just wanted to make sure i was doing it right. Just in case could you check out my project to make sure i didn't fudge something up? Here is the project for cinema 4d. The link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xskdwa6idywiy02/SnowBlind%20Mountains%20for%20Kraid.zip?dl=0.
I also noticed in sdk source that the model doesnt have any wireframe lines, it is completely invisible. 
« Last Edit: March 14, 2015, 10:02:34 AM by RogerMooreSucks »
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Re: Cinema 4D to SDK hammer?
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2015, 09:37:57 AM »

I took a look at your file and there are indeed many issues.

You need to get a better understanding of what you're doing by watching some basic C4D tutorials.

I told you to import a .smd into C4D to get an idea of the hierarchy and required Tags for a model export.
Guess you didn't do that.

Parametric Objects, Deformers and Generators cannot be exported to .smd and most other file formats.
They are meant for internal usage only.
So all these things, if they are going to be exported, have to be converted into polygon objects.

Here's an example on how it could look like:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/732he849pc34aqc/snowmountain.zip

The top object is just used for baking textures and deactivated for editor and rendering.
(also doesn't export with the rest when the option only visible objects is selected) the
It was created the cheap and dirty way, simply by using the polygon reduction deformer on a highpoly landscape object,
then UV mapped the result and baked out the shaders color and normal channel.

I recomend you to take a carefull look at all the settings e.g. of the bake texture tag.


Last but not least, if you need to know any in depth information about a certain object, tag, or anything else inside of C4D,
use the built in help system.
Right click on the symbol and choose help to directly jump to the part of the documentation that describes it.
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Re: Cinema 4D to SDK hammer?
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2015, 11:45:28 AM »

I took a look at your file and there are indeed many issues.

You need to get a better understanding of what you're doing by watching some basic C4D tutorials.

I told you to import a .smd into C4D to get an idea of the hierarchy and required Tags for a model export.
Guess you didn't do that.

Parametric Objects, Deformers and Generators cannot be exported to .smd and most other file formats.
They are meant for internal usage only.
So all these things, if they are going to be exported, have to be converted into polygon objects.

Here's an example on how it could look like:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/732he849pc34aqc/snowmountain.zip

The top object is just used for baking textures and deactivated for editor and rendering.
(also doesn't export with the rest when the option only visible objects is selected) the
It was created the cheap and dirty way, simply by using the polygon reduction deformer on a highpoly landscape object,
then UV mapped the result and baked out the shaders color and normal channel.

I recomend you to take a carefull look at all the settings e.g. of the bake texture tag.


Last but not least, if you need to know any in depth information about a certain object, tag, or anything else inside of C4D,
use the built in help system.
Right click on the symbol and choose help to directly jump to the part of the documentation that describes it.

In spite of what you have told me to do, I only been using this program for a few weeks and I didn't realize all the necessary steps in order to have everything correct to make a model usable. I do appericate your tips and help. I am a noob to this, it will take me a bit to get a full grasp on this program, i guess i got impatient and really wanted to get my mountain model in game. Patience is a virtue i suppose. Thanks for the example, it really is helpful.
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Re: Cinema 4D to SDK hammer?
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2015, 12:04:04 PM »

Hello again. I took the example you sent me and and used it as a test. I compiled it from an .smd to .mdl and added the texture you provided. I went into sdk model viewer and it gives me the error "ERROR LOADING MODEL." I followed your advice and i figured most of it out to a certain extent but i still can't seem to get the model to become viewable in the model viewer or in hammer itself when i go to place the static prop. Not sure if you even finished that example where it could be immediately exported and compiled to be used right away. I just did it simply as a test. I know there is help manual but I'd rather speak to you directly since you understand how to do this. The manual only helps to a certain extent. There is no direct instructions on how to get a model ready and usable for hammer.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2015, 12:07:38 PM by RogerMooreSucks »
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Re: Cinema 4D to SDK hammer?
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2015, 05:16:13 PM »

Tested it myself, it's working just fine, so the issue has to be on your end.


Most simple and basic .qc i ever used i'd say:
Code: [Select]
$modelname "props\snowblind\snowmountain.mdl"
$cdmaterials "\models\props\snowblind"

$staticprop
$surfaceprop "ice" //doesn't really matter, since it'll never be shot

$body "Body" "snowmountain.smd"

$sequence idle "snowmountain" loop fps 1

Note that i compile the model with sdk launcher opened and set to GES config.
Also for the sake of usability, i use GUIStudioMDL to compile.

The only thing i recently stumble uppon in every source engine related compile is this:

Code: [Select]
..\tier1\fileio.cpp (4002) : Assertion Failed: m_nNumRegisteredWriters == 0
Assert( Assertion Failed: m_nNumRegisteredWriters == 0 ):..\tier1\fileio.cpp:4002

Happens on prop and map compile. Not sure what it means, maybe some access issues at file writing.
Compiling still works without issues, so i guess it can be ignored.
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Re: Cinema 4D to SDK hammer?
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2015, 11:45:54 AM »

Tested it myself, it's working just fine, so the issue has to be on your end.


Most simple and basic .qc i ever used i'd say:
Code: [Select]
$modelname "props\snowblind\snowmountain.mdl"
$cdmaterials "\models\props\snowblind"

$staticprop
$surfaceprop "ice" //doesn't really matter, since it'll never be shot

$body "Body" "snowmountain.smd"

$sequence idle "snowmountain" loop fps 1

Note that i compile the model with sdk launcher opened and set to GES config.
Also for the sake of usability, i use GUIStudioMDL to compile.

The only thing i recently stumble uppon in every source engine related compile is this:

Code: [Select]
..\tier1\fileio.cpp (4002) : Assertion Failed: m_nNumRegisteredWriters == 0
Assert( Assertion Failed: m_nNumRegisteredWriters == 0 ):..\tier1\fileio.cpp:4002

Happens on prop and map compile. Not sure what it means, maybe some access issues at file writing.
Compiling still works without issues, so i guess it can be ignored.

Thanks Kraid. I found what i did wrong. It's funny how something so minor can throw everything off. Also whenever i compile the smd to mdl it makes a seperate gesource folder and puts the model there for some odd reason even though i give it a direct path to compile to.
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Re: Cinema 4D to SDK hammer?
« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2015, 10:01:05 AM »

Morning Kraid. I been busy trying to figure out this program for the last 4 weeks. Looking at countless tutorials which barely offered any help and I really would like to release this map very soon so i was wondering if you could make a tutorial on how you made your mountain model with all the necessary tags in C4D so that it is ready for export when its all said and done. I have wasted a lot of time and effort on this only to end up in the same spot countless times over and over and quite frankly it is tiresome. Honestly this program is really not user friendly....not to mention that cinema 4d offers tutorials that cost over 350 dollars LOL which i found hilarious. I literally have watched over 25 tutorials and i watch them very closely and the tutorials they did were missing the important tags your model had. So those tutorials are useless for me. I wish this program was a bit more user friendly...unless it is and i am just a retard. I know i bitch and moan when things don't come easy i am more of a visual learning so if i don't see how it is done then i really don't understand it. Once i see it i never forget how to do it. I know i ask a lot from you and i do greatly appreciate all your help you provide me but for the maps sake I think this tutorial will help many people besides myself on how to properly make mountains for sdk hammer. Trust me i rather do this on my own if i knew the necessary skills but i don't. I know i need to learn this program on my own but for the maps sake i see no other option. I am not asking you to make the mountain model for me; I just really need some professional guidance on this program. Thanks if you can.
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Re: Cinema 4D to SDK hammer?
« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2015, 04:04:48 PM »

C4D is one of the most user friendly 3D apps out there. A bit tricky though if you're creating game assets with it, since it initially wasn't exactly designed with game creation in mind.

I haven't spent one cent on tutorials for C4D yet. There's plently of good free stuff out there.
Ofc. same issue when it comes to game content creation and even more of an issue when it gets as specific as modelling for source using C4D.

Quote
I am not asking you to make the mountain model for me
In fact you do. Because in order to create the desired Tut for you, i'd have to create a mountain model.
Also i'd have to restrict myself to the features R13 offered, because this is what you're using right?
So no sculpting, mesh projection or other new Features from my R16 allowed.

Right now i ain't got time for things like this, sorry.
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Re: Cinema 4D to SDK hammer?
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2015, 09:49:37 AM »

C4D is one of the most user friendly 3D apps out there. A bit tricky though if you're creating game assets with it, since it initially wasn't exactly designed with game creation in mind.

I haven't spent one cent on tutorials for C4D yet. There's plently of good free stuff out there.
Ofc. same issue when it comes to game content creation and even more of an issue when it gets as specific as modelling for source using C4D.
In fact you do. Because in order to create the desired Tut for you, i'd have to create a mountain model.
Also i'd have to restrict myself to the features R13 offered, because this is what you're using right?
So no sculpting, mesh projection or other new Features from my R16 allowed.

Right now i ain't got time for things like this, sorry.

I upgraded to R16 now :). I suppose you are right about you "Not having to make the model." I didn't think of that lol. I got your message as well
One thing i am having issues with is how to apply the "normal tag" to it, and when i show the mesh in uv edit it is perfectly square...a big black square. IS that normal? When i looked at your model and showed the mesh it showed the lines and detail of the model. Am I doing the UV coordinates correctly? I tired to do the uv coordinates before the object bake and i had everything ticked correctly but it wouldn't allow me to generate the coordinates until after i baked the object. I am still failing how to see orange...meaning the UV points. All i ever see is either blue or yellow.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 01:26:00 PM by RogerMooreSucks »
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Re: Cinema 4D to SDK hammer?
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2015, 04:08:09 PM »

Quote from: roger
One thing i am having issues with is how to apply the "normal tag" to it
Allready said that in my first post in this thread:
Quote from: kraid
I'd also recomend Vertex Normal Tool lite to 'bake' the phong-tag smoothing into a normals Tag.
I assume that you are able to google it.

As for your UV issue:
Quote from: kraid
Last but not least, if you need to know any in depth information about a certain object, tag, or anything else inside of C4D,
use the built in help system.
Right click on the symbol and choose help to directly jump to the part of the documentation that describes it.
In this case it means right click on the UV tag and choose help from the drop down.
Read the upcomming help text and also the hyperlinked additional information.

RTFM (read the fucking manual) is something i recomend everyone who's working with Cinema 4D.
Sometimes it's better then any tutorial out there.
I literally learned the 3D basics just by reading through an earlier version of their Manual, when it was still a PDF.
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