Debriefing > General Goldeneye
GE:S just doesn't feel right to play?
killermonkey:
That's an overly broad statement when applied to quoting my post. Need to be more specific or NOTHING will change.
Spacedud:
--- Quote from: killermonkey on December 06, 2013, 11:58:43 pm ---Your first part of the reply is criticizing us and N64 GoldenEye. No changes to be made than.
--- End quote ---
I'm sorry? Is the GE:S team above constructive criticism? I do aim for it to be constructive, at least. You don't want honesty? You don't want feedback with some subjective emotion to emphasize a personal point of view? You know, I'm not trying to be a dick here. I actually have much respect for the work/devotion put into GE:S. It's an admirable project. However, this fact doesn't mean that I'm not going criticize. You sound like you're punishing me personally with 'No changes to be made than'. I'm glad I have that much influence on the project! (s).
--- Quote from: killermonkey on December 06, 2013, 11:58:43 pm ---Your seconds part raises the interesting point about the increase time when in low health. I counter that when in low health you are 1-2 shots from death from a moderately weak weapon. In such a case you gain an extra 0.6 seconds of reaction time to thwart your foe. Not exactly a mountain of time as you suggest, but enough to turn the tides if you are a good shot and a bit lucky.
Granted it does make it harder to time your shots, but I argue that it creates a better experience overall by allowing you to respond to an active shooter or flee at the critical moment.
One thing that may be a bug is that the increased invuln is applied regardless of your armor status. That may need to be corrected in 4.3.
There is more to this game then you give it credit for. Thanks for the feedback though.
--- End quote ---
I try to see your side on the matter, but I do not personally find these points very convincing, as is. I'm not saying that this hit detection system is totally flawed in theory, but I argue the implementation of it. Presentation matters a lot, though, and I might even have liked this system if implemented in a other way. Emphasize on intuitiveness and response.
I do think of GE:S as great mod in many a ways, actually, but also as a game that's ultimately flawed design-wise on a few matters. If you put pepper on a otherwise delicious cake then can the pepper not ruin the cake even if the pepper's mass is less than 0.1%? I might be one of the >1% on having these opinions, or not. I gave my feedback because I care.
Edit:
BTW: Instead of a deny sound then a different kind of feedback would also work. Let's say that the bullet's denied had another impact effect instead of just nothing. Like the bullets hitting something hard, you know? This would likely be less annoying than a deny sound, but a deny sound could still be very useful for those that wouldn't mean such deny sounds and just want more feedback.
kraid:
There allready is a hit confirmation sound.
Introducing a miss sound for every bullet that missed would annoy the player especially with rapid fire guns.
As for a visible effect we have two main problems.
1. impact effects are calculated client side, not on the server.
Sometimes you don't see blood but hit and sometimes you'll see blood and missed.
Introducing an additional effect for missed bullets would increase this discrepancy even more.
2. Latency.
While you won't notice a slightly delay of a sound much, you'll instantly see if a visual is delayed.
Our eyes are simply much faster then our ears.
Spacedud:
Yes, there's true. The lack of a hit confirmation sound is a indeed deny response in itself, however, does it feel good to shoot at somebody and the only response is the lack of a response? This is a very important point. I don't think it feels very good. It's a limitation of the hit detection construction right now.
I understand the technical shortcomings of impacts being on the client-side in this case. It'd work on LAN fine, though, but not with higher ping, as you said. My ideas might well prove weak upon farther critical thinking on them. I'm really just trying to come up with possible alternatives. I'm definitely not saying they're solid without a doubt. I do think it's more fair to say that deny sounds might annoy depending on the player, not necessary everybody. It also strongly depend on the implementation.
Anyhow, the varying delays is probably the most influencing factor on the matter of feedback.
Edit:
Okay, a quick story. I sneak behind a guy and shoot him in the head 3 times in what should have been a quick execution, however, only the first shot is counted. How frustrating and unsatisfying. The hit detection system is hardly without downsides. I could give more practical examples as to such moments.
soupcan:
--- Quote from: Spacedud on December 08, 2013, 07:01:34 pm ---Yes, there's true. The lack of a hit confirmation sound is a indeed deny response in itself, however, does it feel good to shoot at somebody and the only response is the lack of a response? This is a very important point. I don't think it feels very good. It's a limitation of the hit detection construction right now.
--- End quote ---
The lack of response is fine. I really don't see a reason for an indicator for hits not counted due to invulnerability. The current system works. This is literally the first time I've seen someone complain about it. Once you play the game and get used to it, even with the invulnerability varying based on health, it's easy to properly time your shots.
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