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Author Topic: Game mode programmer (cont'd)  (Read 12787 times)

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Troy

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Game mode programmer (cont'd)
« on: July 28, 2012, 05:52:23 PM »

Hello,

In March of 2012, I applied as a game mode programmer.  My trial was to revamp Gun Game.  At the time, I did not finish this because more important things took precedence in my life.  A few months went by, and I saw 4.2 was going to be released.  I decided to finish my trial so the mod could have a better version of gun game.  The results of my work was Arsenal.  After this, I redid TDM.  The results of this were TDM v2.  Both of these have been included in 4.2.

I want to be part of the team so I can receive feedback from the members, and help test the latest game modes.  I have also done Agent Under Fire and TurboDM.  I have spent hours at my computer coding game modes so the mod can grow.  This is just the beginning of my work.  I can do much more.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2012, 12:39:51 AM by Troy »
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Re: Game mode programmer (cont'd)
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2012, 12:48:12 AM »

As i can see you allready rewrote parts of your post, so i guess you noticed on your own that some of it was a little... let's say expressed in a wrong manner.

So my post which aimed more or less directly on that had to be edited, too.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2012, 12:57:46 AM by kraid »
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TriDefiance

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Re: Game mode programmer (cont'd)
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2012, 09:13:45 AM »

I thought being a part of the team was granted when the dev's saw the potential of the person, not when asked to be apart of them?
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Troy

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Re: Game mode programmer (cont'd)
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2012, 09:40:48 AM »

As i can see you allready rewrote parts of your post, so i guess you noticed on your own that some of it was a little... let's say expressed in a wrong manner.

Cy sent me a private message and I agreed to fix it.  I was angry when I wrote that.  I'm still angry with what's going on as I should be included in the testing process, I should be the one approving or disapproving the changes and improvements, and I should be able to read feedback from the team!  If my work is liked enough to be included in 4.2, then I should be instated as a developer.  I've made changes to my game modes, and I'm sure they aren't even included the latest build.  I won't be making anymore game modes if this is the way the community wants to treat me.

I thought being a part of the team was granted when the dev's saw the potential of the person, not when asked to be apart of them?

Uh no, that's beta tester.  Why do you think there's a Join Us subforum?
« Last Edit: July 29, 2012, 11:14:22 AM by Troy »
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Re: Game mode programmer (cont'd)
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2012, 11:44:58 AM »

My issue is, you are angry in the first place to need to be told to change your words to represent yourself better.

Or in essence fake who you are. The natural reaction for you was to whinge on the forum (for what is the most serious post you could make) about how you believe you are being treated poorly.

And you cite poor professionalism to me in a PM about another matter, and then 24 hours later cy has to prompt you to watch how you appear in what is meant to be a professional display.

Bottom line. You are not supposed to be "angry about whats going on", and I feel you are violating professionalism by leveraging a "victim" stance that may appeal to fans of this mod, but do no favors with development branch.
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Wake[of]theBunT

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Re: Game mode programmer (cont'd)
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2012, 11:48:51 AM »

And big no no. Don't say horrible things like "I won't be doing this or that unless this and that happens"...

Everyone is grateful for your efforts no more the playing community (forum bs aside), but the team is not indebted to you to bend to your every will automatically above our processes and protocol.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2012, 11:53:22 AM by Wake[of]theBunT »
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Troy

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Re: Game mode programmer (cont'd)
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2012, 12:53:30 PM »

My issue is, you are angry in the first place to need to be told to change your words to represent yourself better.

And my issue is I've completed my trial and nothing has come of it.  And on top of that, your team thinks it's okay to exclude me from being able to test my own work with the team...  Nice one man, that's very professional.

Or in essence fake who you are.

I'm not very good at faking when I'm not angry.

And you cite poor professionalism to me in a PM about another matter, and then 24 hours later cy has to prompt you to watch how you appear in what is meant to be a professional display.

Did you read the PM he sent me?  It was in regards as in my language was casting a negative light on my application.

And big no no. Don't say horrible things like "I won't be doing this or that unless this and that happens"...

I never said, "I won't be doing this or that unless this and that happens".  I said, "I won't be making anymore game modes if this is the way the community wants to treat me."

Everyone is grateful for your efforts no more the playing community (forum bs aside), but the team is not indebted to you to bend to your every will automatically above our processes and protocol.

It seems to me you are speaking for the whole community again.  I hope this is how they feel, but you're speaking like this is another one of your PR reports.
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Re: Game mode programmer (cont'd)
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2012, 01:01:56 PM »

Here is my understanding of how things work for a giant project like this:

Anything that gets added to the game officially is now the property of the GoldenEye: Source team. Of course you would be getting credited for your work, but they have the right to make any changes they like to it, to make it work for the game. Just having something added to the game is a big honour...

Secondly, if you were apart of the team, you have to work with the team. Yes, it was your creation, but you have to take on the suggestions of EVERYONE else in the team. Content gets moulded around to make things work. However, just like any team, there is hierarchy, which is there to make sure things run smoothly. Just because you code this section of the game doesn't mean that you have the final say about how things will be changed.

So, if you just want it so your name is on everything, stick to third party content. If you want to be apart of the team, listen to what the team is telling you, and work with them.
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Troy

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Re: Game mode programmer (cont'd)
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2012, 01:13:56 PM »

Here is my understanding of how things work for a giant project like this:

Anything that gets added to the game officially is now the property of the GoldenEye: Source team.

Oh okay, so they have the right to take people's work and do what they please with it?  In the real world that is what a patent is for.

Of course you would be getting credited for your work, but they have the right to make any changes they like to it, to make it work for the game. Just having something added to the game is a big honour...

I need to be informed of what has changed.  You don't tamper with one's work without asking first.

Secondly, if you were apart of the team, you have to work with the team. Yes, it was your creation, but you have to take on the suggestions of EVERYONE else in the team.

How do you suggest I take suggestions when I can't see what the team has said?

Just because you code this section of the game doesn't mean that you have the final say about how things will be changed.

I may not have the final say but I have a HUGE say.

So, if you just want it so your name is on everything, stick to third party content.

I have a better idea.  How about you remove these modes from 4.2 and go back to the awful versions of TDM and gun game?
« Last Edit: July 29, 2012, 01:15:57 PM by Troy »
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Mangley

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Re: Game mode programmer (cont'd)
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2012, 01:40:05 PM »

Well I'm going to weigh in and try to be as fair, impartial, and sincere as I can possibly be here. (As far-fetched as that may seem?) It's no secret that you and I have our differences Troy, but I'd like to set that all aside for this post. Take it or leave it.
 
 I'm in total agreement with Wake. If he doesn't speak for everyone, I will say he speaks for me and that I find what he's saying to be fair. It's true, you are doing some good in the community, creating game modes. But programming third-party game modes does not require teamwork. You have some level of ability (I don't know how much because I'm not a programmer). That I fully accept. But it takes more than just ability to be a part of a team.

Lets be clear here. You respond to criticism with upmost hostility and spite, which says to me that you are only looking for praise rather than wanting honest feedback. This is a big problem because you would have to deal with constant criticism on your work, including from me and others on the team who you are not necessarily on good terms with. These insecurities and adverse reaction could cause more trouble than you are worth if they became an obstacle within the team.

My opinion is that until you can control your emotions and let go of your grudges you would simply be boiling under the surface, and be the source of a continuous problem within the status-quo of the team. Simply pretending to be respectful and professional doesn't earn you respect here, just for the record.

I'm all for giving people second chances. Where your ability is concerned, I'm fine with that. But as far as your attitude is concerned? I think we might be a little past that by now.

It's not my call. I am happy with you being given another shot if that is what the lead devs decide. Just as I was with your previous application.

What I'd really like for you to do is to impress the fuck out of me.
 
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Re: Game mode programmer (cont'd)
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2012, 04:13:10 PM »

Oh okay, so they have the right to take people's work and do what they please with it?  In the real world that is what a patent is for.

I need to be informed of what has changed.  You don't tamper with one's work without asking first.

How do you suggest I take suggestions when I can't see what the team has said?

I may not have the final say but I have a HUGE say.

I have a better idea.  How about you remove these modes from 4.2 and go back to the awful versions of TDM and gun game?

I honestly don't think making threats is going to sway anyone to accept you onto the team. Like Mangely just said, you'll need to learn to take criticism and advice without blowing up. I had a third party contributor working for my mod who reacted very adversely to criticism and had a quick temper. He worked well for a couple months before I ordered a second member to absorb some of his duties. The guy exploded and we ended up banning him from the forums entirely. Those are not the kind of people that work well on a development team where there is a lot of criticism.

Additionally, contributing content doesn't give you a HUGE say in a mod's development. I've made some icons for the game and I'm honored to have them in. That doesn't give me any say in what they're used for. Likewise, the people who send me shotgun models don't have control of whether I turn it into a melee weapon or not, however if they kindly and politely ask for it, I'd be far more likely to adjust it.
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Re: Game mode programmer (cont'd)
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2012, 04:17:08 PM »

Quote
I have a better idea.  How about you remove these modes from 4.2 and go back to the awful versions of TDM and gun game?

Sounds good to me. I don't want to deal with heartache or have another Armored Fury incident on my hands. You have basically left me no choice but to pull these modes from 4.2, I will not respond to to "do it or else" threats.

And yes, I read your original post. Editing it doesn't change what I know you really wanted to say.
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Troy

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Re: Game mode programmer (cont'd)
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2012, 04:35:46 PM »

Lets be clear here. You respond to criticism with upmost hostility and spite, which says to me that you are only looking for praise rather than wanting honest feedback.

That's absurd.  Do you have any idea how much feedback E-S has given me?  We have talked for hours and he's one of the reasons the modes are at the level they are now.

This is a big problem because you would have to deal with constant criticism on your work, including from me and others on the team who you are not necessarily on good terms with.

Lets be clear here Mangley.  This whole conflict between you and me started when E-S and BigBird were going after the #1 spot on the ges-stats page.  Bird asked me to mess with E-S a little bit, so he would stop playing, and Bird could remain #1.  Thinking back on all of this, it was extremely silly.

My opinion is that until you can control your emotions and let go of your grudges you would simply be boiling under the surface, and be the source of a continuous problem within the status-quo of the team. Simply pretending to be respectful and professional doesn't earn you respect here, just for the record.

If you recall, I added you and E-S so we could reconcile.  I would actually consider E-S a friend now.  You on the other hand continued to act in the same childish manner.  Spiting my posts and trolling me.  You are the one who needs to let the grudge go.

What I'd really like for you to do is to impress the fuck out of me.

At this point in time, I am not motivated to do anything more.  It seems to me anything I do will receive a spite from you out of discontent.
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Troy

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Re: Game mode programmer (cont'd)
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2012, 04:37:42 PM »

Like Mangely just said, you'll need to learn to take criticism and advice without blowing up.

Again, I have no idea where you are getting this from.

I've made some icons for the game and I'm honored to have them in. That doesn't give me any say in what they're used for.

There's a difference in saying what they're used for and modifying them without your consent.
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Troy

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Re: Game mode programmer (cont'd)
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2012, 04:38:39 PM »

And yes, I read your original post. Editing it doesn't change what I know you really wanted to say.

Good, I'm not trying to hide anything.  I hope you don't sink so low as you take what I've done, recode it yourself, and claim you made it.  Then you'd really be showing the community your true colors.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2012, 04:41:50 PM by Troy »
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