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The Cy

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Interactivity
« on: September 15, 2011, 01:27:17 pm »

hi kids,

I really think we need much more interactivity in the maps. most of them are perfectly designed, with all the high definition textures, the thousand decals, the architectural finesse I admire. but most of the time, you simply run forward and don´t have to care for the environment. I say: let the environment be a dynamic part of the game. one explosive barrel ist nice, but we need two barrels. we need locks and boarders for doors. the player wants to destroy things. the player likes to mess around with things. we need pitfalls (think of cradle)! have you ever played goldeneye rogue agents? this game´s shit like hell, but it has nice multiplayer options that I stole for the funhouse: buttons, traps, shooting ranges, collapsing floors.  falling objects from the ceiling. in my opinion those things are very important to entertain the player. they create a certain feeling for the map.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2011, 03:09:59 pm by The Cy »
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Mangley

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Re: Interactivity
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2011, 03:05:40 pm »

In my opinion it's a difficult balance to strike.

Interactivity is good as long as it doesn't interfere with the consistency of the experience. One difficult choice in design is how far you are going to allow interactivity to intrude in the game space and how does it wear over time?

If we look back to the old version of Silo from beta 4 with the Rocket that actually launched when you pressed Use on one of the computers. In theory it sounds awesome and the first time you witnessed it it was cool... But then it started happening every round and the novelty wore off very quickly. It gradually became an annoyance and a distraction from what was going on. People unfamiliar with it didn't understand what was happening when the deafening alarm went off, and the people who did had seen it a million times before.

What's great about Funhouse is the interactive features of the map are very clearly intentional as part of the atmosphere and design of the map. They're also not intrusive enough to break the experience in a way that is repetitive or overly distracting.

I think the key is subtle functionality. You can have interactive features that are purely visual or that don't really affect the environment in any kind of dramatic way, and when done correctly they won't feel gimmicky or annoying. As for dramatic experience-changing features, they need to be executed in a way that does not make them easily repeatable or jarring in a way that is annoying or interferes with the player's expectations.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2011, 03:07:45 pm by Mangley »
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The Cy

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Re: Interactivity
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2011, 05:12:18 pm »

In my opinion it's a difficult balance to strike.
If we look back to the old version of Silo from beta 4 with the Rocket that actually launched when you pressed Use on one of the computers. In theory it sounds awesome and the first time you witnessed it it was cool... But then it started happening every round and the novelty wore off very quickly. It gradually became an annoyance and a distraction from what was going on. People unfamiliar with it didn't understand what was happening when the deafening alarm went off, and the people who did had seen it a million times before.


I think the launch of the rocket is just a funny gimmick to watch. like the cartridge in control when you find out the right combination. these things are easter eggs which don`t influence the player. the traps in funhouse are deliberately exaggerated. there shouldn´t be a guillotine in facility. what I miss are more dynamic things like the moving platform in complex. I like to activate/destroy things which causes the player`s death. there´s a map (golden gate bridge) in goldeneye rogue agent where you can simply activate pitfalls by pushing a button. I would like to see something like this in cradle. someone´s pushing a button, a slot opens and a player somehere else gets the shit end of the stick. 
and there´s always the possibility to control the interval of a trap in order to prevent abuse
« Last Edit: September 15, 2011, 05:20:31 pm by The Cy »
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Re: Interactivity
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2011, 07:09:35 pm »

Yes and no.

For missions, yes.  We should make the environment highly dynamic.  I'm reminded of one of the later games (Nightfire?) that featured "Bond moves" when the player noticed a highly theatrical way to accomplish a goal.  I'm not necessarily into devising specific ways to do things, but yeah...the player should be able to think of ways to deal with problems and see them work.  Use laser-watch on a seemingly meaningless floor grate to weaken it, guard walks over it, it breaks and he falls to his demise.  Shoot a cable on the ceiling to make it drop down, attach to a door knob, if a guard opens the door he gets fried.  If we're going to make Single Player matter, it needs to capture more than the gun-play of the films.  My spitballs here are probably implausible, but you get what I'm talking about.

For multiplayer, maps need to be static.  Except for the grand dream of a map that automatically opens up when players pack in and locks away paths when players leave, there is really no opportunity for any grand interaction that isn't going to either be annoying or one-shot.  Exploding barrels are accepted as cliche, because they are point traps that just make an area more-dangerous unless you pop them before you go in, or pop them when someone tries to sneak by them.  Once "used" the trap resets.  But, you can't do that with big things like collapsing a staircase (which also chokes flow, which is bad for multiplayer) or destroying walls.  (We already had problems with glass respawning on people and trapping them in place.)

Indeed, the barrel is your guide for making a proper map trap.  It's easily defused (with a drawback, you can't use it and everyone heard you do it) and anyone who is close enough to be killed by it knows he's risking himself by going near it (usually for a power item), it doesn't break any other feature of the map, and it doesn't break immersion when it resets.  You can camp it hoping to get a cheap kill on someone, but it isn't a winning strategy.  Yet, every once in a while in a gunfight, barrels make the difference.  Caves' generators are barrel traps in the exact same vein, and work well.
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Jeron [SharpSh00tah]

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Re: Interactivity
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2011, 10:29:31 pm »

Except for the grand dream of a map that automatically opens up when players pack in and locks away paths when players leave,

That may be possible through a trigger multiple, !activator and a counter
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Re: Interactivity
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2011, 12:09:29 pm »

If we look back to the old version of Silo from beta 4 with the Rocket that actually launched when you pressed Use on one of the computers. In theory it sounds awesome and the first time you witnessed it it was cool... But then it started happening every round and the novelty wore off very quickly. It gradually became an annoyance and a distraction from what was going on. People unfamiliar with it didn't understand what was happening when the deafening alarm went off, and the people who did had seen it a million times before

i cant seem to find this easter egg
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The Cy

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Re: Interactivity
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2011, 12:55:15 pm »

For multiplayer, maps need to be static.  Except for the grand dream of a map that automatically opens up when players pack in and locks away paths when players leave, there is really no opportunity for any grand interaction that isn't going to either be annoying or one-shot.Exploding barrels are accepted as cliche, because they are point traps that just make an area more-dangerous unless you pop them before you go in, or pop them when someone tries to sneak by them.  Once "used" the trap resets.  But, you can't do that with big things like collapsing a staircase (which also chokes flow, which is bad for multiplayer) or destroying walls.  (We already had problems with glass respawning on people and trapping them in place.)

I don´t think that every multiplayer map needs to be static. it should be the assignement of a map to reduce the steadiness by messing around with dynamic elements. of course a map should have to be stable in it´s own structure. to make it clear: it´s not my intention to destroy big areas or the whole map. I see that Problem. what I mean is something like this:

func_door activated by a button could be used a pitfall
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16POAWO1dDs&feature=relmfu

traps, which are a part of the map. not the most important part, but a good oppurtunity to have some nice interactions from time to time. they don´t have to be flashy, rather well-camouflaged. think of aztec. someone shoots off the wooden bridge (with respawning wood boarders) you´re walking over but you could rescue yourself by jumping on the bridge´s static framework. you´re pushing a button and suddenly a huge block popps out of the wall, crushes your enemy and goes back to the basic position. man, that would be fun! that has nothing to do with maps opening up and locking away paths.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2011, 01:10:38 pm by The Cy »
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Re: Interactivity
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2011, 05:01:37 pm »

If we look back to the old version of Silo from beta 4 with the Rocket that actually launched when you pressed Use on one of the computers. In theory it sounds awesome and the first time you witnessed it it was cool... But then it started happening every round and the novelty wore off very quickly. It gradually became an annoyance and a distraction from what was going on. People unfamiliar with it didn't understand what was happening when the deafening alarm went off, and the people who did had seen it a million times before

I always thought we should put a chair on the rocket and blast a player into space.
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markpeterjameslegg

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Re: Interactivity
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2011, 05:49:11 pm »

Wouldn't this stray away from what the developers have always aimed to achieve, a perfect remake of the original. Personally I don't much like the sound of all this interaction stuff, it's just not Goldeneye, and I agree it would just be a temporary distraction.
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Ruone Delacroix

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Re: Interactivity
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2011, 06:26:53 pm »

I always thought we should put a chair on the rocket and blast a player into space.

That would be hilarious!

"Hey, buddy! Sit on this chair right here"

"Uhh... OK! What's this fo--- OH SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIiiiiiiiiiiiiiii...."
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Re: Interactivity
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2011, 08:13:59 pm »

I have kind of taken your route cy when I created my version of siberia. I have interactable stuff in that map that goes along the same line of what VC talks about and what you mentioned. However, they are stuff you will just have to find yourself. :) However, none of them affect gameplay. One of them actually IMPROVES flow and gameplay, so it should be interesting. :)
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Re: Interactivity
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2011, 02:15:05 am »

shhhhhhh Spoilers CCsaint :)

though i agree with Cy Interactiveness is great and should be used more in gameplay
mainly as sometimes when you are alone on an empty sever it helps to go find cool stuff while no one is around
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markpeterjameslegg

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Re: Interactivity
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2011, 08:31:52 am »

shhhhhhh Spoilers CCsaint :)

though i agree with Cy Interactiveness is great and should be used more in gameplay
mainly as sometimes when you are alone on an empty sever it helps to go find cool stuff while no one is around

When no one is around you'll have bots to play around with.
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Re: Interactivity
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2011, 02:29:54 pm »

When no one is around you'll have bots to play around with.

True, I played with 8 bots last night stress testing the code :-)
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CCsaint10

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Re: Interactivity
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2011, 06:09:45 pm »

True, I played with 8 bots last night stress testing the code :-)

That reminds me, i am not looking for to making nodegraphs on siberia with its terrain...going to be a complete bitch...Fffffff
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