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[killermonkey]

you just picked up the pad and spammed your friends, they spammed you back, and whoever put the most bullets into the other character won, it was that simple most of the time. I don't know how, but going from an N64 controller & autoaim to a mouse & keyboard with no auto aim whilst keeping the original mechanics has made the game complicated. It's lost the simplicity that made it so much fun.

This is a seriously false statement. We implemented the same exact mechanism (with minor tweaks) in GE:S as GE64 and all of a sudden you can't "spam kill" people anymore? Of course if EVERYONE spams EVERYONE else, its just like COD. Everyone does the same amount of damage at the same rate.

However, the technicality of GE64 and GE:S is that if you control your shots, pick the right weapon, and hit the right areas, you can annihilate the spammer quite easily with any weapon. In COD, your only choice is to spam or land a really lucky headshot. There is the HUGE distinction between GE:S/GE64 and "modern" shooters.

I can't express how little I care about people who complain about the damage in our game. They don't understand the mechanics, didn't take the time out of the day to read the documentation, and really only show their true ignorance to everyone that knows the truth. We don't stoop down to the level of the lowest common denominator like COD, TF2, L4D, etc do.

[markpeterjameslegg]

Not false, when me and my brothers and mates all played there was none of this "Controlled Shots" talk, you just shot at each other, it just came naturally to hold your finger down, as it still does. And I think I stated before on another post that I have tried controlled shots with no noticeable difference to the amount of kills I make. And you talk about COD's mechanics like they are a bad thing, considering how many people play COD online in comparison to this mod I would have thought you would have chosen your words more wisely. The "Mechanics" are the difference between a good online game and a bad online game, so with that in mind I can only assume that with the sheer enormity of people playing COD online, Activision must have got it right. I have Call Of Duty 4, and it's awesome online, and the mechanics have never been an issue. And saying you don't care about what the people playing your mod think of it, as the lead developer is frankly surprising.

[killermonkey]

You are choosing to read parts of what I wrote.

I said there is a huge distinction between COD, et al. and our mod/GE64. That distinction is invulnerability periods. I never said anything about the other games being good or bad compared to ours/GE64.

I care a lot about what our players think, WITH EXCEPTION TO DAMAGE. Let me quote myself:

I can't express how little I care about people who complain about the damage in our game.

You also are not paying attention. This conversation started with good players vs new players. The distinction between a really good GE64 player and you and your mates is that a really good player controlled their shots. Whether it was conscientious or not is a different issue, but some people recognized the mechanic of the game, and others frankly didn't. There was a large delta between me and my mates when I played GE64 with them, and that difference was the WAY that I played, not the weapons, or the controller, or whatever. It was my skill, my style, and my understanding of the game.

[markpeterjameslegg]

Fair enough. It's nice to have a debate sometimes, but I won't bother you with it anymore. Respect.

[Rodney 1.666]

Aw, I just sat down with my coffee when this was getting good...

[Mangley]

And you talk about COD's mechanics like they are a bad thing, considering how many people play COD online in comparison to this mod I would have thought you would have chosen your words more wisely. The "Mechanics" are the difference between a good online game and a bad online game, so with that in mind I can only assume that with the sheer enormity of people playing COD online, Activision must have got it right.

This is pure ignorance. Lets dissect:

Comparing how many people play a Triple-A title game on multiple platforms with an entire dedicated game design studio behind it with a budget ranging in the millions for things like advertising, voice acting, special effects etc... to a mod developed for no money in people's free time who's playerbase consists solely of people who are interested enough in mods to try them, own a source game/or are prepared to buy one, meet the system requirements, use Steam etc...

Popularity has so little to do with game mechanics, particularly in the case of Call of Duty which is a successful series that has been running for almost a decade. There could be a CoD title that used identical mechanics to GE:S and it would still have millions of players simply because it's a CoD title.

Fact is the vast majority of players are easily pleased and aren't capable of thinking critically. They aren't even aware of what game mechanics are being employed and aren't clued enough to realise if these are good or bad.

And none of this implies that anyone thinks CoD is bad. In fact I think CoD is very good, it does what it does well and it satisfies the main-stream market. Main-stream consumers are virtually conditioned to stick to particular brands, titles, genres, whatever you call it, and it's only the minority who break away and are actually open minded or analytical to try the unusual and the obscure, and not all of those are prepared to climb the learning curve and patiently improve themselves.

[markpeterjameslegg]

This is pure ignorance. Lets dissect:

Dissect away, I give up.

[Mangley]

Urgh, that's such a cop-out.

Though saying you give up is much better than saying 'lets agree to disagree'. Still it's pissweak, I want more people to admit they're downright wrong rather than backing out.

Well that's just me. It was good whilst it lasted.

[markpeterjameslegg]

Im not wrong, your not right, im not right, your not wrong, I can argue, but to what end? At the end of the day, these chaps have done a great job, I don't want to bust their chops over my and other people's personnel preference. Respect.

[killermonkey]

Mark, don't be afraid of a little discourse. I highly doubt you will offend anyone on our team. We can all take a lot of heat and a little discussion never hurt anyone.

Respect.

[VC]

This thread is dildoes.

Fact: Goldeneye Source does things differently than any FPS out there.
Fact: Goldeneye Source uses the same system as Goldeneye 007.
Fact: Because the human inderface devices are completely different, Goldeneye Source exhibits the Goldeneye 007 system in its own way.
Fact: A good player can defeat almost any player with almost any weapon in a short amount of time, while a poor player will have difficulty even with a powerful weapon.
Fact: People who have it in their heads that they pwn j00r n00bs will not take kindly to being at the bottom of the learning curve when they trial Goldeneye Source, and will quickly retreat to the sandboxes that they are already kings of.
Fact: People who aren't full of themselves will find Goldeneye Source to be a very unforgiving game, and few will stay with it.
Fact: Those that do long enough to develop the apporpriate skill set will enjoy Goldeneye Source for countless hours.

The cards are on the table.  Deal with it.

[Emilia]

That is a very good quick summary VC.

I was the same when I first started playing this mod and just sticking with the game made me a better player.

I just find it very annoying that people have this mind set that if they can't pick it up the first time, they never will be good at it or it isn't worth their time.

It's different. Embrace the difference. If you are going to keep playing the same kind of game mechanics over and over, you have only one gaming skill. Congratulations.

[keefy]

Good players scare away the bad players in every game it jsut that nowadays in othwer games there are systems implemented to help the bad players get frags and increase their sense of acomplishment there used to be a need for practice preactce practice now in most games its more or less down to what setup the players use rather than their outright skill at the game.

[Kinky]

Reason for that is expanding your audience = more money. Makes sense and you cant blame the developers tbh. Hardcore gamers are also notoriously tight with their cash.. you dont see many CS 1.5 pros shelling out on microtransactions...

The beauty of modding is that you arent bound by sales targets and revenue. However you then have to accept that your audience will always be limited...