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Have Achievements ruined games?

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Mangley:
Modern console gaming is really setting some bad trends, particularly with regards to multiplayer.

Look at Modern Warfare 2, GTA IV and Aliens vs Predator... the multiplayer lobby/matching system takes away control from server owners and players alike in favour of a 'console-friendly' dummed down system.

coolDisguise:
Well, I'd like to quote all of you, but that wouldn't make sense, would it?

So... here's what I think. Like Kraid I liked that old unlockables method and I often come to think of achievements as an approach to make games more casual friendly, so casual gamers will get everything in the game without doing anything/much and providing a challenge for hardcore gamers at the same time.
The sad thing about this: a mere score+ (Windows Live, XBox Live)or a viewable status on some community page (Steam) isn't as encouraging as EXCLUSIVE unlockables.
Nevertheless I also have to agree with Jeron, it indeed adds a sense of completion to games and with everyone being a little of an completionist (like Mangly said) this really extends your playing time. When it comes to good and bad achievements there are some points in which I have to disagree with Mangley and Wake.
When you're seeing achievements as kind of a 'completion list' it's only natural to have some unlock autmatically as you progress in the game (following an eventual storyline if there is one) and so there would definitely be some "too easy to get"-achievements along with that. But I wouldn't say "too easy" qualifies for "bad" in every case.
For me, achievements should be both: rational and fun to get, so I'd say a bad achievement would be something that involves pure grinding and that's the point where I come to diasagree with Wake: unfortunately there are many 750 kills achievements (weapon achievements agent - 00 agent) in GE: S which are just grinding and sometimes can lead to behaviour of ignoring the game mode because the loadout finally gave you the weapons you still need to farm kills with in order to "work" torwards the achievement. :- (
But at least the other non-farming achievements make up for that.
Well, just 3 weapons to go, so I'll do them anyway sooner or later. ^^
In general I think the design goal for achievements is/should be: introducing the player to game modes he/she wouldn't have played (Last Agent Standing), showing advanced mechanics to player (Ufo-owning), having the player showing some skill (Scaramanga's Pride, Russian Roulette, Shaken but not disturbed).
The difference in difficulty between achievements could either be expressed in granting more completion percentage or (like Microsoft does) having scores. Still I agree with km saying "it's not achievements making the game but the gameplay".

Rodney 1.666:


And what's the YouTube embedding tag 'round here?

Jonathon [SSL]:
Achievements don't really bother me.

I don't play games as much as I used to anymore (making them is more fun), but when I do play, I play because I feel like enjoying the game experience. If a little popup comes up that says I got some achievement, I think "oh cool, I got something!" instead of "NOW I GOTTA GET THE NEXT ONE!". After reading the article Jeron posted I find it kind of sad that the guy gets into a fight with his girlfriend over Left 4 Dead achievements, which I got half of all of them from just playing the game every few days for the first year I owned it. I think achievements should be reasonable and fun, not a chore to the player.

This is why I really like our achievement implementation, simply playing the game without even thinking about them gets you those satisfying achievement progress and achievement earned sound effects on a regular basis.


--- Quote from: killermonkey on March 31, 2010, 06:29:02 pm ---Playing GE64 the achievement was being able to punch your friend for armor camping....

--- End quote ---

lol, this is how my friends and I used to play all the time, if someone was RCP90 spamming or something we'd quickly smack their controller out of their hand, with laughs all around. Gone are those good old days.

Gabbo:
I don't like or actively seek out achievements in games (2 or three games aside, oddly all related to Valve). When achievements stopped offering a valid reason to get them, like unlockables in the original GE64, I stopped caring. I don't do a lot of multiplayer gaming and none on consoles that isn't local/split screen so I really don't care about gamer scores or pimping my epeen online to 12 year olds

Going to jump on the 'implementation' bandwagon I guess. If a dev makes them cheeky and you earn them for your own attempts at emergent gameplay (what happens if I go there? That X looks like it goes with Y), then by all means add them. But if they're added simply to pad a game's playtime or cover up some bad design decision, then I'd rather not play the game (catch 22, I have to play in order to come to this realization).

I don't think they're ruining gaming, but they shouldn't ever be a main focus until the core game is up to snuff

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