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Author Topic: [suggestion]Shooting Range  (Read 5601 times)

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coolDisguise

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[suggestion]Shooting Range
« on: February 26, 2010, 06:43:27 pm »

You might know the shooting range from Perfect Dark, where you'd have a certain amound of time and ammunition to score points on different difficulty levels.

My suggestion is to have something like this, so new players can practice and get to know their weapons before entering combat on servers and advanced players could practice on some mechanics like rolling explosions, bullet penetration, timing grenades and shooting ricochets with the grenade launcher.

Maybe it could be linked to some achievements or other unlockables, yet it could improve the experience for a first time player.
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Mangley

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Re: [suggestion]Shooting Range
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2010, 09:40:59 pm »

In the original Goldeneye, there was no such thing. So I'm certain there will be no such thing in Goldeneye: Source.

Besides, in Goldeneye, singleplayer was where you got to know the weapons and understand the gameplay... There was no need for a gun range. Dam was in some ways the perfect training mission. You started off with a stationary guard who was very easy, then to a patrolling guard and a stationary guard further away, then you had an opportunity to learn how to aim with the sniper rifle etc...

If/when they do singleplayer it won't be necessary to have any sort of training because of the nature of Goldeneye and its progressive difficulty and steady learning curve.

Also, in GE:S we have Gun Game, which is in my opinion the best way that new players can learn how to play the game. It teaches the value of each of the weapons and gives a fair fight to everyone, the further you progress the harder it becomes and a newbie can still take you out with one or two poorly placed shots.
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Enzo.Matrix

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Re: [suggestion]Shooting Range
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2010, 10:15:27 pm »

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keefy

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Re: [suggestion]Shooting Range
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2010, 10:37:48 pm »

I do not dislike the idea.
Is that perfect Dark mod dead?
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kraid

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Re: [suggestion]Shooting Range
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2010, 09:57:59 am »

The question is: if Rare would make Goldeneye Today, would they include a shooting Range?
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coolDisguise

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Re: [suggestion]Shooting Range
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2010, 01:25:39 pm »

Well, good question.
There are 2 possible answers to this, leading to the same conclusion, I think.
If they would aim to remake without adding anything, I guess they wouldn't.
-> But GE: S already has other added stuff, that really does fit in there.

If you think of PD as GE64 #2, when the team had learned from their previous release (as you can read on some sites the team was inexperienced when they made GE64 because for most of them this was their first commercial game) they added it.

So either way you COULD justify it.
Question is: would you?
In any case it does not REALLY matter to me, just some idea I had that I thought I might suggest. ;-)
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kraid

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Re: [suggestion]Shooting Range
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2010, 04:30:11 pm »

Hmmm... this could be a part of MI6 Headquarters (if there'll be a SP).
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Mangley

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Re: [suggestion]Shooting Range
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2010, 04:56:06 pm »

You're supposed to be a highly trained 00-agent. Why would you need to use a shooting range?

It's very gimmicky. Many games use shooting ranges for training and it's quite unnecessary. Understanding how the weapons handle just takes some common sense and a glance at the controls.

Well designed shooter games don't require it, and actually incorporate the training into the progressive gameplay. Take HL2 for example, once you get the pistol the level progresses, gradually introducing you to easy enemies like scanners and metrocops and mechanics like shooting gas barrels and gradually amps it up.

Shooting simple targets that don't shoot back or dodge does nothing to prepare you for facing other players.

I'm not saying it's a terrible idea, but I think it has no place in Goldeneye, it would stick out like a sore thumb.
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coolDisguise

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Re: [suggestion]Shooting Range
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2010, 06:54:49 pm »

Well, wasn't agent Dark also supposed to be a highly trained agent?
And yet it was there, also this VR training area thingy.

Maybe I'm not that good at fps in general, but I for example have problems getting used to TF2 - and it's something I'd appreciate in there, because if you're always getting killed almost instantly, you don't have much time to learn about your weapons.
And it seems, there are players who get the exact same experience in GE: S.

You're absolutely right about that HL2 example, that's also why it came to my mind in the first place. But HL2 can take its time to introduce weapons and mechanics one after another due to being a SP game.
And that's my point - it's not only about shooting movable or immovable targets but also getting to know features like exploding your remote mines in mid-air, getting to know which weapons can penetrate, timing exploding stuff or stacking rolling explosions to your advantage.
I know, this stuff IS well documented (->wiki) and you COULD test it yourself locally if you wanted to, but honestly.... few new players do that. There are many who join a server, play for a few hours and then eventually discover there's an aim mode they could use - or ragequit before.
Well, I'm repeating myself there - I guess our opinions concerning fitting in are clearly stated.
Let's see whether it's given a shot or not. ;-)
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InvertedShadow

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Re: [suggestion]Shooting Range
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2010, 11:50:18 pm »

I, for one, like this idea.

The perfect dark shooting range wasn't required for training or anything, it was just a little extra they threw in. And the shooting range was pretty fancy with moving/spinning targets, goals for each weapon, etc.
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Wake[of]theBunT

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Re: [suggestion]Shooting Range
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2010, 09:04:24 am »

The thing for us as designers isn't to appease brilliant/educated goldeneye players with this feature, it is to expose new players to the "goldeneye" tradition and the way our mod works on those traditions without them having to endure a month of getting slaughtered because they are playing it wrong.

Our loyal and dedicated playerbase who read our write-ups and wiki do not need this because they have learnt how damage is dealt and what weapons are optimal, but we have witnessed hundreds of people being turned away from not understanding our mod right off the bat and getting frustrated. And as much as we wish people would be like yourselves and stick around the community til they learn ; Not a whole lot are willing.

So a variation of this idea (even if it is not EXACTLY this idea) will be looked at for our next few releases, definitely. It wont be required to jump in servers, but will be encouraged for new players.
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WatchMyTrace

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Re: [suggestion]Shooting Range
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2010, 02:22:24 pm »

I don't see that this is needed at all. However I have been playing around with a few ideas of mapping out some minigames and doing a kinetic range in which you move from room to room was an idea...

Personally I love gun game but nobody seems to run it on there servers so I hardly ever get the chance to play it.
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Cyan

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Re: [suggestion]Shooting Range
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2010, 06:21:47 pm »

You're supposed to be a highly trained 00-agent. Why would you need to use a shooting range?

It's very gimmicky. Many games use shooting ranges for training and it's quite unnecessary. Understanding how the weapons handle just takes some common sense and a glance at the controls.

I could go either way, it might help learn/maintain accuracy but the that same time spent on another quality multi-player map would likely be better for everybody. It is not a bad thing and tr_walkway in tf2 shows a well done shooting range can help players improve skills at least in some areas. Granted it uses bots not cardboard like targets.

On your point about highly trained 00-agent if you are wanting to remain a proficient marksman in the real world, a shooting range is necessary. However in game you would have hundreds if not thousands more gun fights than happens to anyone in real life with your death only being a minor setback to learning. Also they would love it if the targets at ranges were as interactive as even barely functional robots in video games.

One of the criticisms against bond movies and spy movies in general is SIS (formerly MI6) or the CIA have agents that could do the investigating, combat, demolition or shooting in scenarios that are not completely far fetched, however specialization is required as it is not really feasible for any one person to remain at a high enough level in every area to be a good choice if they actually had a an idea of what they were wanting done in any given situation.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 06:27:10 pm by Cyan »
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EMH Mark I

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Re: [suggestion]Shooting Range
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2010, 06:26:41 pm »

I don't see that this is needed at all. However I have been playing around with a few ideas of mapping out some minigames and doing a kinetic range in which you move from room to room was an idea...

Personally I love gun game but nobody seems to run it on there servers so I hardly ever get the chance to play it.

You're in for a treat when you come back Scooby.  Almost every server has gungame now with Beta 4.
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