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[VC]

Complex is still being blocked out, but there is a gameplay change that is strongly related to Complex that you kids should know about.

In Beta 4, the player's radius is reduced from 16 to 12 units.  This moves us from Source's idea of how fat someone is to Goldeneye 007's idea.  This is also good news for you, since it means tight areas like the pillars room in Complex will be something you can navigate without getting hung-up all the time.

This also means you can have a fight in a hallway beyond simply banging into each other and holding the mouse button down, since you can slip around people much more easily.  Additionally, this means you can get a lot closer to the walls, which will let you slip by Proximity Mines and have an easier time taking cover from bullets.  It will be a bit of a change from what you are used to, but then again, Beta 4 is changing a lot of things.

Shifting to the thread's intended topic, the scale for Complex is probably going to be about 104%.  That's a bit of a jump since Library and Temple both came in within 1%, but shit happens.  For those who are concerned I might forget, no, I'm not going to forget about how some of the holographic walls are one-way see-through and others aren't.  I know it's fucked up in the current Complex Classic and Neo, but as of vc_complex, fixed.  Regarding the Neo... no comment.

Oh, and while I'm not going to ensure that it's possible, I'm not planning on doing anything that would prevent skilled players from hiking Grenade Launcher Projectiles over the walls and into neighboring rooms.  I figure Complex has open ceilings for a reason, so the skybox will give plenty of headroom for high-angle surprises.  After all, a straight-up GLP is like a timed mine with pinache.

[PPK]

That sounds great. I can't wait to see that implemented.

The pillar room gave many players a headache in terms of navigation; when you're Bond you're not supposed to be as fat as Valentin.

Best of luck with the re-making of Complex Classic.

[Rodney 1.666]

I figure Complex has open ceilings for a reason, so the skybox will give plenty of headroom for high-angle surprises. After all, a straight-up GLP is like a timed mine with pinache.

Hmm... I'm going to have to try that out in 007. (If no one else already knows.)
Pinache indeed.

[JcFerggy]

I have tried it, and it can be done, but it is hard to aim it with the 64 controller. I assume it will be easier with the mouse.

[Rodney 1.666]

Bah, beat me to it.

Just tried it out, and yeah, it's difficult, especially due to the nades being in the air for so long, making it hard to judge.

[Jonathon [SSL]]

does the decrease in player radius mean that players can stick their hands even farther through doors now too? (Already semi-possible in the 3.1 release of GE:S and a classic bug in ge64).

[killermonkey]

That's a bug in all FPS's that use the viewmodel / worldmodel perspective

IE. What you see is your gun NOT clipping (because the cameraboy prevents it from getting that close, hitbox of viewmodel), but the world model doesn't take the gun's hit boxes into account when determining your bounds. So yes, the decreased radius will cause this to be worse...

I'll look into it, but not priority and why break the system now? Been A-OK since GE64 lol

[Jonathon [SSL]]

Been A-OK since GE64 lol

Yeah, I would say don't even try to fix it, my friends and I always got a kick out of shooting people's hands through the door when we played ge64 (Plus it won't even be as noticeable in ges's fast-paced environment).

[steven_m64]

Complex is still being blocked out, but there is a gameplay change that is strongly related to Complex that you kids should know about.

In Beta 4, the player's radius is reduced from 16 to 12 units.

uhoh.

has the Sticky/jerky movement bug been fixed btw?

id hate to see the bugs effect increased. D:

[VC]

client stuck on /0 not only still exists but pushed me to ragequit last night.

However, it has no association with player radius.  The problem is that Orange Box SDK is defective bullshit and that pisses me off.

[mookie]

Just have KM port the game back to ep1.

[VC]

If it weren't for multifire.

[Wake[of]theBunT]

Just have KM port the game back to ep1.

no

[steven_m64]

client stuck on /0 not only still exists but pushed me to ragequit last night.

However, it has no association with player radius.  The problem is that Orange Box SDK is defective bullshit and that pisses me off.

i'm not going to argue about it anymore but its a FACT that other mods do not have this problem (to the degree the mod has) the plain and simple and i have worked with source engine coding long enough to know it well and also love and hate it a good bit.

the problem as i said before is due to server<->client prediction errors that from the look of it is due to the player bounding box. i have seen the same kind of problem before in the mod i worked on.

also i even think hl2dm when it was first released had a somewhat similar problem.

bitch and moan about the SDK all you want (i know i have a lot over the time i have worked with it) but i say theres a 85% probability that its a MOD problem that can be mostly fixed with a bit of bugfixing time and effort.

[killermonkey]

Steven, you have been proven wrong by a 100% chance and you didn't even know it yet.

I finished integrating the new beta SDK code into GE:S last night and we playtested to see if Valve fixed THEIR prediction and animation errors and it turns out they have!!

That's right, this problem was 100% to do with Valve. I didn't revert or change a single line of GE:S player movement, bounding box, or other such code during the merge and the playtest results on Cradle and Complex (the two worst and most frequent offenders of collision stuttering) resulted in smooth as glass performance for all involved with various latency levels.

VC did notice a stutter with player collisions, but that is on our end and has been fixed.

So please stop taughting your knowledge as the next coming of christ. I know what I am talking about and so does Lodle and we knew this was Valve's doing. Case closed.

[JcFerggy]

So, does this mean we can go back to talking about VC's Complex in the hopes of him releasing a screen? If not then I'm at least glad that the stuttering is fixed.

[steven_m64]

So please stop taughting your knowledge as the next coming of christ. I know what I am talking about and so does Lodle and we knew this was Valve's doing. Case closed.

i was not taughting my knowledge as the next coming of Christ just stating my opinion based on my previous extended experience and as a outside observer of the mod, take hint at the outside bit as i was only trying to help but could NOT help since i am on the outside and could not see the code for myself.

so please stow the pointlessly hurt feelings and ill will good sir its really not needed in the situation as i was trying to help out.

since it looked like you needed it, but you don't want my help so fine i will no longer attempt to help as you so wish.


so back to a better topic at hand then:

all the new changes to  the mod are looking great i cant wait to see them all and the new complex.

[killermonkey]

just stating my opinion based on my previous extended experience and as a outside observer of the mod, take hint at the outside bit as i was only trying to help but could NOT help since i am on the outside and could not see the code for myself.

Your opinion was overstated and fiercely defended considering you were an "outsider". However, being that this was a Valve bug all along, like I said previously you don't need to see our code, the code that was at offense was publicly available to everyone, even you.

Onto Complex:
Last I spoke to VC it didn't sound like he wanted to do complex over again, I think we'll be sticking with ge_complex_classic transmorphed into vc_complex.

[steven_m64]

may i ask then if it was 100% valve code why is it not that every other source game and mod have the same problem to the same horrid degree that GES had it?

as i stated the Only time i have seen it that bad was within a bugged version of a previous mod i worked on.

just trying to understand that really.

i mean source has always had rather odd movement problems at times but GES was the only game where i would get so annoyed i just wanted to break my keyboard into little chunks.

but valve code being frankly Painful to work on at times its not surprising somehow it could happen like that.

i always fiercely defend subjects i believe to be correct on. 

[JcFerggy]

VC, not wanting to be a perfectionist? Poo.

[Sergeant Kelly]

The latest Goldeneye: Source version uses the Orange Box SDK. That's what was causing the problems.

Most mods out there use the standard old HL2 SDK.

[VC]

I will do Complex, but it is irritating and I'm sick of it so I'm shelving it for a bit.

There is an issue with preserving the proper visibility and ensuring that GLPs will behave logically.  I have an idea of a way to work around it, but I don't feel like experimenting with it currently.

So if I'm not doing Complex right now I need to do another map (bunkerbunkerlol) but to do that I need to enhance my program and so I'm going to spend this week/end programming instead of mapping.

The current Complex Classic is close-enough for testing purposes.  Library was way off and Temple was needed for Grenade Launcher testing.  Complex is not even close to critial at the moment so onto the back-burner it goes.


Besides, compared to all the other work that needs to be done for Beta 4, the maps are the least of worries.

In fact, perhaps I'll write two programs.  It'd take a while but I could probably make a VMF reader that will take care of my textures since Hammer can't handle "1/8th".

[killermonkey]

The latest Goldeneye: Source version uses the Orange Box SDK. That's what was causing the problems.

Most mods out there use the standard old HL2 SDK.

QFT, we are one of a select few mods that actually used the OB engine and made a substantial release. None of the steamworks mods were on OB when they were released on steam, fyi.