Debriefing > Impressions & Feedback
First thoughts and impressions
RUMBL3R:
--- Quote from: coolDisguise on March 21, 2009, 04:36:58 am ---Was there something else bothering you beside the maps? I guess not. ^^
--- End quote ---
Well, yeah, I just didn't want to get into it all. Some of the simpler things such as jumping, falling from certain ledges, the fact that using the aim doesn't make the weapons anymore accurate (people could just paste a dot on the screen for a crosshair and not move like a slug when aiming) and I'm sure they will be adding some of the more noticeable things such as rocket launchers and dual weapons in later builds.
I do understand expanding the levels to accommodate modern player matches but my comment is more directed at the complexities added. Such as all of the extra props. Remember, I'm thinking classic. I would be perfectly happy with replicas with simple extensions. Take complex classic for example. That is what I enjoy. I don't mind if it is expanded with more rooms or what not but in the new build it has all this fancy pipe work under glass panels with lights and stuff. And there is some button that activates a bridge. Just takes the memories and tosses them out the window for me.
RUMBL3R:
--- Quote from: killermonkey on March 21, 2009, 04:45:48 am ---Gameplay has changed over the past decade and we can't possibly be successful if we release a Goldeneye clone because no one would want to play that.
--- End quote ---
You are absolutely correct when you say that gameplay has changed but one thing that hasn't changed are people's memories. People play ROMs of old games for this very reason. PacMan is still a fun game for this very reason. I think that your current audience isn't exactly the people who played GE back in the late 90s. I think that your audience currently consists of post Goldeneye players. As most of us call the CounterStrike generation. Nostalgia will never die.
Thanks,
David
coolDisguise:
--- Quote from: RUMBL3R on March 21, 2009, 04:59:57 am ---You are absolutely correct when you say that gameplay has changed but one thing that hasn't changed are people's memories. People play ROMs of old games for this very reason. PacMan is still a fun game for this very reason. I think that your current audience isn't exactly the people who played GE back in the late 90s. I think that your audience currently consists of post Goldeneye players. As most of us call the CounterStrike generation. Nostalgia will never die.
Thanks,
David
--- End quote ---
If you don't mind to take a look around, you will see that many people who play GE:S - especially those here in the forums - have played GoldenEye on their respective N64s. Most of them did as well play other FPS games and are open minded for changes that might improve our beloved GoldenEye in a way.
--- Quote from: RUMBL3R on March 21, 2009, 04:48:02 am ---Well, yeah, I just didn't want to get into it all. Some of the simpler things such as jumping, falling from certain ledges, the fact that using the aim doesn't make the weapons anymore accurate (people could just paste a dot on the screen for a crosshair and not move like a slug when aiming) and I'm sure they will be adding some of the more noticeable things such as rocket launchers and dual weapons in later builds.
I do understand expanding the levels to accommodate modern player matches but my comment is more directed at the complexities added. Such as all of the extra props. Remember, I'm thinking classic. I would be perfectly happy with replicas with simple extensions. Take complex classic for example. That is what I enjoy. I don't mind if it is expanded with more rooms or what not but in the new build it has all this fancy pipe work under glass panels with lights and stuff. And there is some button that activates a bridge. Just takes the memories and tosses them out the window for me.
--- End quote ---
All I can say is, I was thinking EXACTLY the same once, but when you have a closer look you'll see, that jumping is (although you can disable it server side) a standard of modern FPS and there is a simple reason for this: a player just walking would be too easy. I mean you play this on your PC, although you have no crosshair you get used to it very quickly and it's way easier to kill people when they are just walking than jumping from time to time.
You may argue about the ledges but I think that's a thing that makes the map "control" very interesting - the different levels and switching between them quickly.
Aiming seems - for some weapons to increase the accurancy. But that was the same in GE64: it didn't matter whether you had activated the crosshair or not while aiming at a certain spot unless you had a weapon with zoom.
Of course ppl could have an artificial crosshair on their monitors, but it seems ridiculous. I mean: it's a game and that's sort of cheating. It's not even "good" cheating - and for those who played this mod for some time it won't make any difference whether their victims would have such an artificial crosshair or not.
It doesn't even quicken the player - when they really need to "aim" with this they will be always slower than people who instinctively "know" where their guns are pointing at.
And yes, for the props... hm.. maybe there will be some classic versions of maps without them, I really don't know, but think about them this way: tables, cupboards and stuff can act as an enhancement, since you may use them for cover. Smaller props show how much the devs love the detail and how much they care to make it look more realistic.
Wake[of]theBunT:
Props in "classic" maps if they are chosen for insertion by the mapper are static. That is our design choice. So you wont see that many source physics affecting nostalgia in those levels.
The simple fact is what Killermonkey points out. What you 'remember' and what is are often vastly different. People with mediocre knowledge of game development will harp on their "nostalgic" feelings above any technical aspect we have already brought from n64 as options or implementations (many really). If they play our mod today and judge it only by today - well thats going to suck.. since most the servers will not give them these classic maps consistently to bulk the nostalgia as often as the newer revisioned versions.
This will sort itself out over time, when the playerbase splits in two effectively.
-Classic hardcores (4 player server preferred. NO more than 8 man)
People who want a clone and nothing more, and imo are kind of foolish to cling so much to the past
-Goldeneye: Source fans. (8-16 / if not Teamplay = up to 24 man)
People who get we are modding a source conversion and its on PC and there is value to making more than n64 playerlimits available to masses.
When the server/player climate gets to this stage, you should not be so troubled.
PPK:
I understand the many points of view exposed in this thread. It is nostalgic to play GE:S since it reminds you of GE007, a game many of us played back in the day and loved.
I personally consider this mod to be more of a re-envisioning of the original formula. GE007 was known for its outstanding multiplayer capabilities and its simple yet engaging game mechanics. I think that what the team has accomplished is great, since they picked up the original formula and worked it to fit modern gameplay demands, such as online gaming.
I do agree that some maps are small for some player counts we see on some servers, like small maps for 16 people, but that is a question of educating the server hosts.
GoldenEye: Source is about upgrading the classic N64 game in order to bring it up for today's standards. It is an amazing creativity exercise executed by the developers, since they have not only recreated the core aspects that defined GE007 but also introduced new ones that greatly enhance the playing experience. And new concepts are to come, from what I can read on the boards here.
The classic version of the maps is another thing that caught my attention. It is good for those who have low frame rates and also introduces more nostalgia into the mod.
Talking about classic maps, is the team planning on introducing classic versions of all maps, including those that weren't originally on multiplayer (such as Cradle and Facility Backzone)?
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