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Author Topic: Open Source Version (After 4.3) Suggestions  (Read 7377 times)

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StupidMarioBros1Fan[1138]

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Open Source Version (After 4.3) Suggestions
« on: November 19, 2013, 02:50:49 am »

Now before I begin, I want to point out that I freaking love this mod, and I am extremely happy that you guys have been working on it for almost a decade now. I enjoy playing this game constantly and congrates for sticking with it for this long. Now I'm going over things that I think should be add/fixed in later versions, and that most of the "issues" I go over are mostly from the OCD and perfectionist side of me talking, and a lot of people probably over look or ignore. I will make references to how GoldenEye X handles this feature, which is a Perfect Dark mod to recreate GE like this is, however their going closer to the original, like they've got same fire rates, sound effects, models, and even overpowered-ness of the guns...so yah it sucks when a bot is duel wielding golden PP7s. O_O Please keep this in mind when reading these "errors."
Also these suggestions are mainly for after 4.3, though some could possibly find a way into 4.3 like new maps. Now let's begin.

FIXES:

Rocket Launcher

Model Errors

First let's get this one out of the way, the Launcher and Rocket models are incorrect. Most of you guys on the development team probably noticed this at one point, and either still remember this or ignore it. The RL doesn't actually shoot a rocket, it shoots one of the Grenade Launcher's Grenade Rounds.
Spoiler for Hiden:


Now while this doesn't interfere with the gameplay, it bugs me seeing it shoot one of those instead of a rocket, again, perfectionist side talking. Now I haven't actually made a gun model for a Source game before, so I don't actually know if this would be hard or not, but from what I see, it should just be a simple process of making a rocket model for the projectile, same rocket model attached to the launcher that is rigged so when you fire, it disappears until it reloads and goes below the screen.

Ammo Error

The amount of rockets that you can hold in GE:S is 7 (1 loaded and 6 remaining), while in the original, you had 4 (1 loaded and 3 remaining) when holding one RL, and 5 (2 loaded and 3 remaining) when duel wielding. At first this seems like a good thing right? Being able to have more Rockets, but it also messes with its balance a little bit. If you were playing a You Only Live Twice match, where it's just you and one last guy. You have a Sniper Rifle with a good amount of ammo, the other guy only has the max amount of ammo for the Rocket Launcher left, and his aim with the RL is just awful so he misses either all or all but the last shot. He'd have more chances to get you in Source than in the original, which yah if it's reversed you'd have more chances, but the Rocket Launcher is already overpowered with it causing explosions with good splash damage when the "rocket" hits something, so you shouldn't need more rockets. Most good players if they have the Rocket or Grenade Launchers, the restock on ammo when they can, so giving them more ammo kinda tips the balance a little bit. Anyways so in my opinion, the Rocket Launcher should have only 3 remaining instead of 6 in future updates. It "should" be a small change so you could squeeze this into 4.3 but you don't have to.

Automatic Shotgun

Model Errors

Now these model errors are tiny, so most people probably overlook them or don't know about them. The Auto Shotgun's shell holder holds 6 shells instead of 5 like in the original.
Now this could be that the real life counter part hold six on the side, but that hasn't stopped you from editing the model. I mean look at the KF7 Soviet, it looks like a pencil (which I love because as kid I knew it as the Pencil Gun like most others), but in real life it doesn't look much like a pencil, so I don't see why you guys couldn't remove a simple space on the shotgun shell holder.
The shell holder is also on the wrong side, in the original, it's on the right and at an angle, while here it's on the left and vertical.
Spoiler for Hiden:


Like I said before, most players over look these or don't know about it, so this is my OCD talking, but I'm positive that I'm not the only one who notice these errors.
Now this part isn't an error, but it'd be a neat little extra. In the original, if you had less than ten shells left, the amount of shells on the side would change depending on how many shells you have remaining.
Spoiler for Hiden:






If it is possible, I'd like to see this in Source in a future update, it isn't much and would probably be overlooked by most people, but it'd be one of those tiny details that hardcore GE players, and players who constantly reload so they have a full ammo clip whenever they find another player aka me, would enjoy seeing.

PP7 (Normal, Silenced, Silver, Gold)

Model Error

Now I know others I mentioned this one, but I'm going to include this anyways. The PP7 models and hands are too far to the right, and I think the hands are different from the ones holding the DD44, Cougar Magnum and Golden Gun. If not different, I know the fingers are positioned differently, noticeably the thumb.
Spoiler for Hiden:




Now I could ignore the PP7 hand being different/positioned differently if it was like that in the original, but it's not. The hands are the same for all these pistols.
Spoiler for Hiden:




Now these might not be as quick of a fix as removing that extra shotgun shell for the auto shotgun (if you do), but I believe it's needed.

Weapon Idle Animations

Most don't have one. A few do have an idle animation, where it moves around a little when you stand, though I think the Grenade Launcher and RC-P90 are the only guns, and then Slappers and both Knives are the only non-gun weapons that do.

In the original, every gun would move around a little when you stood still, so it bugs me that most of the guns in Source don't, that it looks a little weird that the character would be able to hold a gun in the exact same position when not moving or shooting. And then Slappers, mines and grenades didn't have any first person models showing.

This is a little error, but adding idle animations adds to the magic and "realism" of GoldenEye: Source.

NEW FEATURES:[/b]

Duel Wielding Guns

Yah this is the big one that we all want. Now I know that the team wants this game to stay balanced, and I respect that so that's why I put in a lot of thought on how to get this to work, stay badass, and be a bit balanced.

Okay in GoldenEye X, here is how duel wielding works:
You pick up a gun from a different spawn point than the first one. This includes picking up dropped weapons from dead players, which in GoldenEye X (and also the original I believe) a player drops all of the guns that they had on them instead of just the weapon they were using before dieing. So many times I'd be killed by an expert bot, who was holding one gun, then they'd run over me and run away holding two. They're more advanced than ours, though they were stupid when it came to explosives, god I'd turn around a corner and theyƕd shoot a rocket when they were right in front of them. Grrrr
Anyways, yah getting duel weapons is simple, easy, and fast in GoldenEye X, however it's extremely overpowered and too easy so everyone would be running around duel wielding guns. They'd look badass, but it wouldn't feel like you actually did anything to get them. So I've come up with an elaborate way to get this to work in GoldenEye: Source, now I don't know anything about programming Source mods, so if the following is not possible, simply tell me (as long as you are an actual member of the team and knows for a fact that it wouldn't be made), and we'll leave it at that. I hope this is programmable, and if not, some elements go into a different version of duel wielding if you do get that feature in a future version.

How to get the ability to Duel Wield a gun:

To get to duel wield a gun, you have to collect it from every spawn point on the map, not counting dropped guns, a certain amount of times, without dieing. If it's an arena, you have to get the gun from all 8 spawn points once, if only 7 to 6 spawn points, then twice, if 5 to 4, three times, 3 to 2 then four, if only one spawn point then you can't duel wield. Why? Because then players would just sit on top of the gun's only spawn point, which is usually the Golden Gun, and then would just camp there, which we don't want to happen. Now I'm not saying you can't duel wield the Golden Gun, if there's more than one spawn, then you can duel wield the Golden Gun. When you die, you have to repeat this progress, I mean come on there has to be some challenge so you feel rewarded. It makes it hard if you're say on Bunker, and the AR33 is only the top two, you have to run from basically one corner of the map to the other four times in one run. So if playing with a bunch of people, you'll be glad to be duel wielding at that point, but you still have to be careful because if you die, you got to go through all of that again. ;)

Specifics on Duel Wielding a gun:

When duel wielding a gun, both guns are only 2/3 their original damage, that way it isn't completely overpowered but you'll deal more damage then say 1/2 power, so there is an actual gameplay advantage to duel wielding & not just looking badass.

Weapons that Can't be Duel Wield:

Now I would like to point out that if you have the original game, you can change what guns, ammo, and which hand the gun is in when you start a level. Same goes for what each guard has, so you can make combinations, like I gave Trevelyan in Facility have a SIlver PP7 in his left hand and a Gold PP7 in his right. I killed and was able to use those two guns exactly like him, Silver in left and Gold in right. This is how Xenia was able to have a Grenade Launcher in her left hand, a RC-P90 in her right and you being able to do the same thing when you beat her. Because I like trying out random things with GoldenEye 007, I tested what guns can be in your left hand. Every gun can be duel wielded technically, however a lot of of the ones you don't in GoldenEye X look weird. Like Slappers, you have two rights hands if you duel wield. xD Same with Taser Boy, Remote Mine Detonator and others.
Anyways, so in Source you should not be able to Duel Wield Mines, Grenades, Taser Boy (when made into the game), Slappers. You would have no need, nor way to duel wield Flags, Suitcases or GoldenEye Keys. You can however duel wield Hunting Knives and Throwing Knives.

Sticking Mines

In the original and GoldenEye X, Mines would stick to ammo crates and players, and I believe Body Armor. Now I'm all up for not having the Mines stick to crates because I, like some others, like to hide Proximity Mines inside the crates and Body Armor, but sticking to players would be a really cool tactic, especially for Remote Mines. >:D

New Weapons

Obviously Taser Boy is planned for some future release since the model and textures have been completed for some time, using it would be interesting concept.
C4, which was only used in the Silo level, but when it got shot, you got either an endless amount of explosions or a really high amount of explosions. It's not a few explosions because if you turn on Invincibility, throw one on the ground or wall in the first room, then shoot at it, you'd be able to go through the whole level with explosions popping up all around you. It's funny running into rooms and then the guards getting killed be the explosions, though Scientists die too so you fail the level unless using an emulator (only if you own a legit copy of the game, which I have two) and having the All Objectives Completed code on. Now obviously this would have to be severally modified for multiplayer. Should be simple, just make a C4 model that explodes when shot or with a knife, and just give it a bigger explosion than one of the existing explosives in the mod.
Beta/Unused Weapons. GoldenEye 007 contains a ton of unused items, from either variations of existing items, to one that were complete and just not used in the original levels, to ones that didn't even get far enough to have their own model, just use the world grenade model for them. Some were unnessary like the Door Exploder and Lock Exploder. Some were cool like the Exploding Pen, which if you guys include only one of the unused weapons, it better be the Exploding Pen, along with an achievement dealing with either Bond and Boris using it. There are a ton of unused things, so if you are interested, then search it on the internet...as long as you're in the mood to read a ton of things. lol

New Characters and Maps

Obviously you guys know that you're missing certain maps and characters. *cough* Natalya and Xenia *cough* *cough* Dam, Train, etc *cough*
Anyways it'd be cool to have 64 characters, just like the original, but I know that there's limits, and considering all those extra characters were reskins and different heads, 64 isn't needed, aka I am joking. Just get the main characters from the game and movie, it'd be nice to see a M and Q in the game. I do hope to see a male scientist, then a soldier with the different suits as alternate colors, however green being the main color. Also alts for characters, like Bond getting his Surface, Jungle, and Stealth clothes, and Alec getting a Janus version (I know that was in the works but was cancelled since the modeler didn't upload what he had before leaving, but I'm okay with a redo that doesn't include a cut in his cheek because that just didn't look right to me :P). Remember this thread is for future versions after 4.3, so I asking for these alts to be available in the final version way down the road, and not by 4.3's release. Next maps, yes get the rest of the maps done, even though Train would still be really linear, it'd be a nice map to play on, but also new maps like ones based off the movie like Valentin's Club, and.....oh well I guess that would be the other main place, maybe a version of MI6 based off the rooms in the movie. And then maps from other Bond games & movies since Casino is based off Casino Royal. :D

Also a classic aiming mode, I'd elaborate myself, but what I have in mind is the same as what StrikerMan780 says in this thread: http://forums.geshl2.com/index.php/topic,7404.0.html
« Last Edit: December 03, 2013, 03:20:35 am by StupidMarioBros1Fan[1138] »
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Re: Open Source Version Suggestions
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2013, 02:56:55 am »

Hello, first of all welcome to the forums! I did not read absolutely all of your post, but almost all of it. I'll give away my personal insight.
These are mostly minor issues there, but are good suggestions nonetheless. I did notice 6 shells in the shotgun rather than 5 myself, but never really paid any attention to it. I haven't noticed the hand position on the pistols though. The problem is, I've heard that model making and rigging is an extremely difficult process, so I wouldn't personally count on those changes happening anytime soon.

As for mines sticking to ammo boxes and idle animations for all weapons, I would love to see that.
I'm not sure if importing already existing idle animations would be hard or broken, but I think it's something that they should look into.

We all asked for dual weapons at some point, but it was said before that they would most likely not be implemented in the game since the original multi-player did not have any dual weapons in them. Your options to nerf the weapon damage is okay, but I still doubt the developers will consider this suggestion. A suggestion from a community member was once made a while ago about making it a server command to allow dual weapons as far as I can remember, but I'm not sure what happened with that. Since this is a complete recreation of Goldeneye 64, rather than Goldeneye X (Which is an amazing mod by the way), I hardly think they would consider importing some GEX elements into the game, too.

As for new maps and characters, several maps are in the works AFAIK and some of the characters we're done at some point, but I think the dev that made them just vanished before releasing.

Finally, I would like to add that the next big patch, 4.3, is currently in the works and we might see an eventual release within the next few months, so we might see some new maps arise!

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Re: Open Source Version Suggestions
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2013, 03:11:25 am »

I agree the Tazer would be awesome to have in the game but without the Proximity/Remote/Timed Mine detector it would be kinda pointless.

C4 and Exploding Pen wouldnt work in Multiplayer as they are just items for Single Player...and unless The GES Team works on Single Player (hopefully in the later future) i dont think they will get made..

New Characters and Maps would be difficult as the team hasnt got enough Character modellers
and rendering and making player models is really hard- im greatful that we have a new Ourumov who looks awesome but im sure that all the charaters will be in there- The 64 Charaters might be difficult- im really just want the All Bonds- Connery, Moore and Dalton Bonds (obviously they dont have to look exactly like the actors but the way that the GES did Brosnans Bond- no physical resemblence to Brosnan)

Its going to take time for the offical maps but there are many excellent custom maps like Ccsaints01's Siberia (Surface map), The Grid Map, Sam Colt's excellent maps (including an Mi6 map which you sound interested in) and lets not forget the awesome Funhouse map created by Cy

The Only maps left to make are: Dam, Surface 1+2 (if they make Siberia offical thats Surface 1 made), Train, Streets (Judging from the screenshot it looks sublime), Jungle and Depot

BTW the automatic Shotgun is modelled on the 2nd Unused Shotgun from the N64 version- the animation for the shotguns in the original might be difficult to reproduce in Source (im not expert here so you might have to ask the developers)
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StupidMarioBros1Fan[1138]

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Re: Open Source Version Suggestions
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2013, 04:10:10 am »

Surface 1 & 2 are the same map but with different item placements and different colored sky and fog for each level. I have those custom maps, and also th frigate one which I think should be an Official map since I can't really think of anything else tha could be added besides the rooms in te movie but those were on a different boat. lol Well the silver and gold PP7s were single player but thy got in, so why not the C4 and exploding pen?
I know modeling is tough, which is why these suggestions are for after 4.3, though any that can get into 4.3 will be great. I'd offer to make some but I don't have enough experience to make any close to the quality that is in source.
I'm guessing the shotgun ring based off the unused model is similar to how te beta kf7 model was based off the originals beta model?
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Jonathon [SSL]

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Re: Open Source Version (After 4.3) Suggestions
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2013, 04:57:39 am »

Sure, I'd love to quit school/my job to implement 50 character models, a couple maps, re-generate the lost source files for weapon models, and code in dual wielding.

What's my starting salary?

Believe me, I represent you in the "OCD" side of development. I'm the reason things like bullet hit effects, the intro video, and Female Scientist's ponytail/Semedi's coattails being physics-enabled are in the game. The sad thing is that most of our best and brightest artists have moved on due to losing interest or getting a full-time job in the industry. I'd say that there's only around a half dozen developers even thinking about the mod right now. Unfortunately, GoldenEye 007 isn't as popular as it once was, and morale is a bit low (for me at least) that our super high quality content will never get to be on Steam Greenlight due to all the licensing issues.

I know KM is still coding, Goldenzen is still making sick music, Kraid is still hanging around, and I'm working on exciting new map-related content. Things ARE coming, just at a much slower pace than back in the Beta 3.x days when we had multiple trial applications running, a dozen extremely talented and active developers, and huge amounts of community support and interesting clan dynamics going.
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StupidMarioBros1Fan[1138]

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Re: Open Source Version (After 4.3) Suggestions
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2013, 04:51:31 pm »

I was joking about the 64 characters, I'll go and edit that in. :P
Anyways, I wouldn't be surprised if all the rage back in the beta 3 versions was because of the cancelled GoldenEye XBLA, and everyone was already hyped on a GE remake and then saw that this was in development and tried it out. It would be awesome if this mod did get the legal rights then it could become more popular, and probably get more people to work on it because they'd get paid. Downside to that would be that we'd have to pay for the mod, which I'm pretty sure that all of us are happy about it being currently free so paying for the final version wouldn't seem that appealing. lol As I mentioned before I would gladly help with these things if I had the experience or talent, but I've already got a bunch of hacks for Smash Bros Brawl that I need to finish and a few SM64 mod, and YouTube videos....yah I quickly lose and gain interests in different things because no joke I have over 64 mods for Brawl. :o
Anyways, like I said in the beginning I am really grateful that people have been working on this for this long, most mods die off before taking 8 years, and like always I find an awesome mod late in it's development. On the plus side to this I didn't have to wait for a lot of awesome features, but I also didn't get to experience all the change. It really has amazed me how far this mode has come when looking at earlier trailers, same goes for a lot of mods like GoldenEye X for example, it also has come really far from it's alpha versions. I just wish my internet would stop being a jerk so I can enjoy this mod more often like last year. :P
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Re: Open Source Version (After 4.3) Suggestions
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2013, 06:00:49 pm »

Don't forget to mention Valve who constantly break stuff that is vital for source mods to work.
A week ago i literally wasn't able to do a single thing in source because my SDK was fucked up by the steampipe update.

Now Hammer is working again, allthough it sometimes still crashes on exit and vrad.exe process sometimes isn't ended. Yesterday i had to try a few fixes till model copmpiling worked again.
Spended 1 hour modelling but 3 more hours till i had a compiled prop.

I'm so sick of Valves tools right now.
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StupidMarioBros1Fan[1138]

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Re: Open Source Version (After 4.3) Suggestions
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2013, 07:04:49 pm »

That reminds me, randomly my sdk files were deleted and I had to download them again. I never messed with those folders so I assume that it was a valve update, where are really annoying.
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Re: Open Source Version (After 4.3) Suggestions
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2013, 01:26:26 am »

Moral of the story, leave source, use a better engine, make a new game where can do what we want and distribute easily and not get sued.

Source is a dead engine IMHO. No one uses it unless it's there first mod to learn skills and a will pick up a small user base. We have/had pretty much the largest user base/downloads of any non valve supported game ever.

That being said we'll never regain the user base or dev support we had from alpha to beta 3. It's a harsh relization but true. With on a good day handful of devs working on GES related projects it's a slow process.

Everyone wishes they had time/skills to do something productive. Us not gaining any new devs for last couple years is harsh.



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StupidMarioBros1Fan[1138]

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Re: Open Source Version (After 4.3) Suggestions
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2013, 01:58:32 am »

Well that's one way to begin the night. :( Anyways I do see your point, and understand. The Source engine is beginning to be outdated, especially when seeing Battlefield 4 previews, last game I've seen with the Source engine was the Stanley Parable, which made excellent work of the warps and stuff.
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Re: Open Source Version (After 4.3) Suggestions
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2013, 04:03:34 am »

I think it's still possible to do do amazing things with the Source engine, too.
The only thing that prevents this is Valves "release update, see what it breaks and eventually release a fix someday" philosophy combined with an asset pipeline from the last century.

Dear Esther, Stanley Parable and BMS showed that beautifull graphics are still possible with source.
I'd even say some of the best looking maps on source were made for our mod.
Just look at maps like casino, caverns, facility, silo, etc.

Also the fact that it's not exactly hard to get into mapping and modding on source (if the tools work) makes it ideal for community created content.

On engines like UDK, you're not able to do much without an excessive ammount of models and frankly their bsp tools suck.

In the end my relationship to source is more or less 50% love and 50% hate and i guess some others will feel similar.
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Re: Open Source Version (After 4.3) Suggestions
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2013, 04:12:24 am »

Also the fact that it's not exactly hard to get into mapping and modding on source (if the tools work) makes it ideal for community created content.

On engines like UDK, you're not able to do much without an excessive ammount of models and frankly their bsp tools suck.

In the end my relationship to source is more or less 50% love and 50% hate and i guess some others will feel similar.

This this this x1000.

The reason I haven't gotten around to making *anything* in UDK yet is because of how model based the level design process is. I LOVE the fact that Source allows you to pull off crazy things with just BSP if you know what you're doing, it allows the level designer to quickly implement cool architecture and block out maps much faster. The whole BSP thing is the only reason I prefer Source over anything else. Literally the single reason.
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soupcan

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Re: Open Source Version (After 4.3) Suggestions
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2013, 04:47:54 am »

Man, Valve really needs to catch up. Just look at Infinity Ward and their amazing fish AI.
/s
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StupidMarioBros1Fan[1138]

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Re: Open Source Version (After 4.3) Suggestions
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2013, 01:43:59 pm »

Super Mario Sunshine has better fish AI, where have they been this past decade. XD
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namajnaG

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Re: Open Source Version (After 4.3) Suggestions
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2013, 08:29:20 pm »

Half-Life 1 has better fish AI!
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